How to deal with people who only respond to you as "impaired" - not as a complex human?

[magnificatAnimaMea]

Feeling quite down about the future. I am pregnant, and know that once i go public with the news a lot of people are going to have unpleasant opinions to share about my competence to be a parent.

Various people in my life see me as either stupid or impaired or disabled, and spend a lot of time rubbing my nose in it. I recognise that some of this is them trying to overcome their own problems by being "better than" me; and some of it is because they either know about diagnoses of ASD, ADHD, and depression, or they just "have always known there's something wrong with me".

My parents have frequently made comments about things that - had they been done differently - might have meant I didn't turn out "the way" I did. These are always things to do with early biology rather than to do with formative experiences/ my parents' influence in my childhood.

My parents have said occasionally that if I ever get pregnant they think I should have an abortion as I am "too subnormal" and it would be unfair on any child to be brought up by "someone like me". Ironically both my parents have pretty strong traits of ASD, stronger than mine, my mother was depressed most of my childhood (and clearly didn't want me and didn't bond with me) and my father almost certainly has ADHD. Neither has any apparent self-insight or any apparent ability to reflect before they speak or act. They are both pretty unpleasant, but are firmly convinced of their own superiority and my inadequacy.

My sister only ever talks to me to relay stories of her friends where a "subnormal" parent has wrecked a "lovely, normal" NT child's life - or where a "subnormal" child has wrecked the rest of the family's life. She likes to point out every time her own daughter has apparently been upset by some nasty selfish child with a disability. Again, ironically, my sister has clear signs of ADHD and shows some signs of ASD, and she shows very little self-insight.

A few friends ignore me almost all the time except when they can give me advice about what's wrong with my life - telling me I need counselling, or asking whether i have thought through what it's really going tobe like to have a baby. In their cases it feels a lot like projection - i don't think any of them had really thought it through before they had kids - and they are not privy to any of the thought I have done.

Just to be clear - i have thought about being a parent. This is my eighth pregnancy. I regard myself as competent to be a perfectly ordinary parent, I think I have insight into my own conditions and into my own degree of being boringly normal.

I recognise that I may be on the edge of prenatal depression, and I am getting help for that. I know what to do about ADHD and what effect it has had on my career in the past. I know what ASD looks like, and what effect it's had on my life - and I also know that basically every health professional who's ever heard about my diagnosis has questioned it, so it's not necessarily as patent as my family and friends seem to suggest it is. It's largely irrelevant, but it might be worth pointing out that I used to have a successful career as an academic, I work, I'm retraining in a different area, so it's not like I am totally unable to function. I actually think a lot of the behaviours that I've had to modify over the years are ones I learnt directly from my parents, or ones that I developed from being characterized as "deficient" and a waste of space, by my parents and sister.

Is there ever any way to deal with people who see you as a destructive waste of their time - other than by just cutting them off and getting on with your own life?

springydaffs - in some sense it is the desire not to play into their narrative that I can't cope with things - wanting to behave normally. The same kind of reason my mother would want to visit, while being unable to stop herself from behaving awfully while she's here.

However, I would characterize constantly pretending to be normal while papering over deep cracks as pretty dysfunctional in anyone else - so I really ought to look at that in greater depth.

I just suggested finding someone who is on an NHS approved list so you have some reassurance that they're not some kind of quack. But there will be other ways of finding a good therapist, and I'm sure some of them would be willing to do Skype sessions if you can't find someone near you. But I agree with Springy that it is definitely something you should pursue. It's worth spending the money on.

Do you honestly think you have ASD, or do you think you have learned behaviours that would normally flag as indicative of ASD? Your posts seem quite well rounded, perceptive and reasoned. You are responding appropriately to other posts and you're able to consider those views and how they align (or otherwise) with your own. You are able to see subtleties in behaviour.....you don't strike me as a candidate for an ASD dx.

Your family are not helping you. They are trying to teach you the life they want you to fit. Resist it at all costs. You are an intelligent, mature woman who has been able to marry, study, work and even retrain. You are not this subnormal being that you are being characterised as. My DD1 has an actual abnormal brain (MRI verified). She's 10 and she's flipping awesome! You are also awesome so don't let your family tell you otherwise.

Look, most therapists are not 'quacks'. Look on the BACP site op.

Who gives a fuck what they think? I have to say it has been since I STOPPED minding what my toxic brood think (mainly because whatever I do is catastrophically WRONG in their eyes) that I have been able to step/fly away blissfully. What joy!

to take them off like taking off an overcoat with rocks in the pockets and lead sewn into the hem

poetic tonight for some reason.

I wasn't suggesting most therapists are quacks, just that I would want some reassurance that someone actually knew what they were doing before I started divulging my most personal issues to them. I have never had therapy but I actually think I could do with some and the idea of finding someone is quite daunting!

You have nothing to prove to them. You owe them nothing.

Also, I agree with what lougie said - from the OP's posts she doesn't sound like someone who has an ASD.

BACP site, buttered. All info there, local therapists, how to find a therapist, what to look out for/check (eg what body, qualifications, experience, supervision etc). All tightly regulated.

I'd change my number with that lot as family, in your circumstances. Traits or not, they're arseholes.

I lie the overcoat with rocks in the pockets analogy.

Hope this pregnancy works out for you. You've had to endure an awful lot of loss

Thank you springy.

like.

i like sleep , too - best get some!

butteredmuffin - thankyou - wil look into that. Probably the simplest option at the moment is student health, who might be able to recommend other people, in private practice.

Lougle - thankyou for the star and the encouragement - i'm sure your daughter is indeed awesome
Re: the correctness or relevance of my ASD diagnosis, it's something I've often wondered about. I definitely do have the "knobs on the tuner turned to weird places" sensory aspects of autism, I've always been bad at eye contact (I can recognize people's elbows and hands, and how they move, much better than their faces) and I've always been excessively literal. I also have always had the obsessive interests - one of which is ASD itself.
While i've been able to pick up on social cues, I've always very unsure of how to respond, and kind of always wanted to melt away and be unnoticed rather than engage with most situations (though that might well be related to my background).

I do think that social perceptiveness in people with ASD can vary with how much they've engaged with the diagnosis and tried/ been allowed to change. I have seen people who, in academia "proper", have not really needed to modify any behaviours, and have been a bit socially odd, though in a very accepting environment. These same people then go to Whitehall as high-level government advisers, and are able to mask the oddness to such a degree that one questions whether it's even still there. I think that while a lot of people ith ASD do have to mask and it is exhausting to do it, it can also be a positive learning experience that can shape how they live the rest of their life. 15 years ago I was masking nearly all the time and was exhausted - 12 years ago I joined a very accepting and friendly university environment full of nice aspie-ish people and with a very kind NHS, learnt to relax a bit, but also gradually changed a lot in how I behave day to day. I think that what helped me a lot (as well as NHS counselling, ASD diagnosis, etc) was essentially being able to watch aspies in their natural habitat, being relaxed as opposed to masking, and being able to learn which social behaviours are productive and which make life harder.

Agree that those of us brought up in a severely disordered family can display disordered behaviour/cognisance etc. (eg all of us at some stage seriously consider we may have a personality disorder/s, on the spectrum etc). I think it's called fleas (linked to the first narc/fleas site I could find - there's a lot out there about narc fleas)

Thanks everyone for all the encouragement. MN vipers are awesome. Time for some lunch, as the morning sickness is rearing its head again...

No worries, magnificat. Take care of yourself! :)

I am a parent who so happens to have a disability and the negativity i got in my first pregnancy was shocking and hurtful, your family sound a nightmare dont tell them till you are ready what they say has no bearing on your ability to parent your not sub normal or broken or unable because of your conditions you have a husband who loves you and he and you is all that matters

You come across as incredibly thoughtful, mature, insightful and articulate OP and you are obviously going to be an amazing Mummy.

Congratulations on your pregnancy X

I've not got an official dx but I tick many of the boxes for ASD & ADHD. I also have bouts of severe depression - 10 years ago I was basically nocturnal, wouldn't leave the house or feed myself properly. 4 years ago I became a mother &, with a huge amount of support from DH, it's been the making of me. I have 2 actual, genuine friends, feed myself & the DC appropriate food at appropriate times, leave the house several times a week... tiny things for most people but a huge deal for me! It's not easy, I've been going through a phase of not sleeping properly & the DC have spent more time playing inside than I'd like but I'm so much better than I used to be & I'm sure I can continue to make little changes that will add up to a big difference, it just takes time.

My DCs life is by no means "normal" but it's not awful! DS1 is also on the spectrum & I think by letting him see how I'm working on myself, hopefully it'll help him accept his differences as he gets older & learn to cope with what he can, but also to lie in a quiet, dark room when he needs to & to know it's ok!

There's no reason you can't make an awesome, if not entirely conventionally NT, parent. I suspect your parents are projecting their own issues on to you. That's their problem, not yours. You've got quite enough going on, what with growing a human & all, you don't need to be taking on their burdens too.

FWIW, I've been told I come across as a lot more articulate/friendly on social media than IRL. I struggle to hold conversations genuinely keep track of the times I've successfully conversed with an acquaintance, it's 2 in the last 7 months since I decided to make more of an effort but I can chat for Britain when I start typing! I know several people who are similar so I don't think how someone presents on MN can necessarily give an indicator of their level of social functioning IRL.

Congrats OP. Parenthood is an interesting challenge but a great opportunity to grow as a person too! Fx your pregnancy is healthy & you get the opportunity to prove to your parents that you're not them!

Thnkyou MrsJayy, girlinacoma, AGnu, PolterGoose - and sorry to hear about the negativity you've experienced MrsJayy.

I think that people who don't necessarily know (or know they know) a lot of aspies probably wouldn't necessarily pick me as one. People who do know aspies pick me as one straight away. Interestingly aspie kids will often mix with me when they ignore everyone else - and their NT siblings interact with everyone else and ignore me.

But - as pointed out in the Dinah the aspie dinosaur comic - aspies are often far more articulate and friendly online than in person. I do like being able to edit what I'm saying before you lot read it

OP, as well as (obviously) agreeing that your family sound horrendous, I'd like to add that it's not actually (for want of a better word) normal to use terms like 'subnormal', not any more. Sounds like there is some massive, almost conscious projecting going on.

My parents sound rather like yours (no ASD/ADHD here but similar tendencies of toxicity, also with a narrative going of me not being able to cope), down to the thinking it acceptable to intervene with my lecturers (on a different matter) - what shocks me in your case is that your lecturers clearly listened, as mine gave them, entirely correctly, short shrift. I know what a long process it is to break free, and the awareness you clearly have of the poisonous nature of their behaviour is only the beginning. But you have to push on with it, protect yourself and your pregnancy. (I also had 6 early losses, though also lucky enough to have 3dc, and it's demoralising - you do need to take care of yourself). I second the recommendation of decent long-term therapy - not CBT, although it absolutely has its place - you have deep roots to lay bare and dig out.

Everything crossed for you that this little one hangs on.

oh and - articulacy online was also pointed out by AGnu too! (sorry!)

Thanks HeteronormativeHaybales.

I completely agree that the terms used by my parents are not remotely normal and are frequently pretty offensive. They have a stunning lack of self-awareness, and indeed have all spent vastly less time mixing with people in different countries than I have, but there's little point me telling them "you can't say that" because of their narrative that I am stupid, know nothing about the world, know nothing about normal people, etc.

The lecturer interaction thing is just bonkers. It's what you might see in the most well-meaning helicopter parent... but it sounds like neither of our sets of parents were well-meaning or particularly helicopterish. Controlling, yes... Glad your lecturers were more professional than mine, though the antipodes 20 years ago were pretty cowboyish about this kind of thing generally. 22 years ago I was at an elite private girls' school where the sports teachers still called people like me "spaz" and told me not to bother joining in the sports lessons. Thankfully that school has changed a huge amount and the university has also become somewhat more professional in how it deals with students.

OP, I really like you -and your husband. The less contact you have with your foolish deluded family, the easier your life will be. You sound great and I hope and believe a baby would be lucky to land on the two of you.