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Relationships

So...what to do...holiday related....

130 replies

pinkpeter1 · 30/03/2016 22:09

I've posted about my dh before, he is very difficult to live with, I struggle every day, but for now, I am staying. (Previous thread, "living with a 12 year old", in anyone cares to remember).

So, my problem is summer holidays are approaching and the children are expecting a summer holiday. I spent our last summer holiday googling divorce lawyers as I hated every minute I had to spend with him. He alternated between speaking in a baby voice and pretending everything was fine and trying to suck up to me, and being a nasty bastard and telling me off, snapping and complaining at me. Our last day, we were waiting in the hotel foyer and he went to get the suitcases from the luggage room, leaving his plastic bag on the table with a t shirt in he had bought that morning, that he had been carrying. The taxi arrived, and I got the kids, got their bags and my bag and went to get on the bus. He brought the suitcases out and then got in. Then he noticed he didn't have his plastic bag and went ballistic at me, shouting at me in front of the kids and the driver, why didn't I pick it up, he was doing the suitcases , what was the matter with me, etc. I defended myself and said I was getting the kids on board with their stuff etc, I wasn't carrying it, I hadn't noticed it. It was a small thing, but the shouting was just ridiculous. He then of course, did his usual of sulking and not speaking, and I was so upset I was almost crying.

So, given that he is only able to be in a nice mood when everything is going his way and nothing is expected of him, the holiday problem is worrying me. When we go to an airport, he constantly walks off, leaves me to sort out out young doc, with their trunkis, not helping with escalators or buses to the plane unless I shout him back, constantly, every five minutes. He was nasty for no reason when we were going through customs, speaking to me so dispicably with such a nasty look and tone, that I don't want to do this anymore. He's done it every time for years, he just can't help himself. I don't want to be travelling with him in that way, and I don't want to be stuck in a small hotel room with him and two doc where I cannot escape and be in my own. I have to ask him every time to help with one kid while I do the other, help one kid get their meal from the buffet, etc etc.

I know it sounds bad, but at hipome I can disappear off to my bedroom, or leave him sulking in his study while me and the kids do other stuff. I can get away basically but on holiday I am stuffed. I don't know what do do, I am thinking a drive to a holiday in France, or Devon or somewhere, in a villa where there are several rooms, so I can leave him to it if need be. He's bound to kick off and sulk at some point, I am just thinking how can I manage this bad situation. Other than LTB, preferably, as I don't feel I can do that right now.

OP posts:
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AyeAmarok · 31/03/2016 08:41

You don't sound like much of a team. And you should be, in a good relationship, you should be a team.

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FinallyHere · 31/03/2016 08:49

So sorry for you lot in life, this man is not treating you as an equal partner.

I get that you don't want the 'failure' of marriage ending in divorce but, I'm sorry to say, that is what you have got. It's up to you now, do you want to continue like this, as your mother did, or do you want to break the chain. I understand that it is easy for a stranger to suggest you take such a massive step, but, honestly, that is no way to live.

Can you imagine a life in which you were never again belittled, shouted at and generally treated like dirt. What would that be like for you?

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Sparkletastic · 31/03/2016 09:06

Sounds like a break for you and your children without him is just what you need. Maybe stay UK and go somewhere like Center Parc, Butlins, Forest Holidays. It will seem like less hard work parenting without your abusive H I suspect. You might find some time to think and make a new plan for your life.

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hellsbellsmelons · 31/03/2016 10:22

Good grief - this is a depressing thread.
The shit you are prepared to live with day in day out is just not OK.
Not for you or your poor DC.

he is very difficult to live with, I struggle every day
You wrote this in your first sentence.
Nowhere in the vows of marriage does it say your partner is allowed to abuse you day in day and you have to put with it.

Your DC are very very likely to grow up being in relationships where they are an abusive victim or they are the abuser.
You see it on these threads every single day!
This thread has made me very sad Sad

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plainjanine · 31/03/2016 11:33

pinkpeter1, I understand that you take your vows seriously, and I respect you for it. However, this is not just about you and him. Your children have not made any promises to sacrifice their happiness to him and his moods (and neither, actually, have you), and they are being let down by him. They are learning all the wrong things about parenting from the pair of you. You owe it to them to do the best you can for them. That means protecting them from the people who are in a position to do them the most damage.

Please get advice about the financial side of things, go to women's aid and put the wheels in motion to reclaim all your lives from this hideous, manipulative monster. Even if you don't tell him yet, start planning your escape. This is no way for any of you to live.

Flowers

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gatewalker · 31/03/2016 11:42

pinkpeter - Mustering as much compassion as I can, unless you change something, nothing will change. I wish you well.

Sometimes the energy invested in trying to help a poster mirrors the energy exchange in the relationship they're posting about - a losing streak both times.

It's in your hands, OP.

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Mumanddadtoone · 31/03/2016 12:43

I'm sorry you're in this situation but I agree wholeheartedly with hellsbells, you are in a similar relationship to your parents and you're children will end up in the same position. Is this really the marriage you wanted? You describe it a "liveable", you only get one life, you are worth more than this, as are your children

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Thurlow · 31/03/2016 12:57

Oh, this makes me so sad and angry to read on your behalf, OP.

You say this about your parents: She does everything, he does what he wants. She gives in so he doesn't get cross

To an outsider, it seems that you have chosen a man exactly like your father, and have exactly the same set up. Which you know that, really, you don't want to teach your children is a normal relationship, do you?

He's ground you down. But you are better than this. And when you are ready, MN will be here to help you.

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KatsutheClockworkOctopus · 31/03/2016 12:58

Pinkpeter I do feel for you-you sound paralysed by your fear of making the wrong decision. I am sure that the erosion of your self worth by this abusive man doesn't help.
However-your posts are making me sad, as they remind me of life with my EA father. If it helps, this is what I remember of our childhood holidays:

  • Dad screaming at me for dropping a sandwich
  • Dad screaming at us for telling him he was driving on the wrong side
  • Dad screaming at us for asking for ice cream

Do you see a theme?. I know this thread must feel a bit like a pile on, but that is because so many of us still suffer from thought like these, and we don't want your children to have the same memories.
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rumbleinthrjungle · 31/03/2016 13:34

My DF was very similar with sudden, explosive rages and tantrums although for other reasons than just being a randomly abusive bastard. My DM managed his meltdowns by controlling everything to the last decimal place and doing a stepford wife act. If we went on holiday she would pack by stealth - he couldn't see her do it or know it had been done or show the slightest stress about it or it would set him off. She would arrange it so that he woke up the morning of leaving without having done a thing, and all he would have to do was shave, dress, drive (that often caused a rage) and she would hand him the correct paperwork pre prepared from her handbag at exactly the right moment so all he had to do was hand it to the right official. Kids preprogrammed with threats, instructions, activities that made no mess, no noise, needed no interaction of any kind and ensured they made no demands whatever. They had trained bladders that lasted for hours and hours to avoid anyone saying they needed a loo at an unscheduled moment and kicking him off that way. Kids also drilled in 'this is DADDYS holiday, not yours, so we do what Daddy chooses and no one shows so much as a cross look never mind protests'.

She managed him like this for years until he left her. She still hates holidays, they were some of the most stressful times of the year to keep him at least managed. With even all this he would still kick off, her aim was just to reduce it as much as possible and to avoid the first kick off of the day as once he was wound up the next trigger would cause an even bigger one and so on, escalating.

My siblings and I never reacted when he kicked off, since we were too scared to and it made things worse. We all spent years with a therapist after leaving home, eating disorders, self harm, one diagnosed MH condition resulting from childhood trauma and another who had post traumatic stress syndrome from witnessing all this, and very distorted ideas on relationships that took decades to untangle as adults. My DM still feels she did the right thing. My DFs current partner actually does not enable or pander or manage his life for him, they laugh at him when he kicks off and walk away. This actually seems to be making for a better marriage. I still start to physically shake when I see him start to get irritable or see a trigger I know will annoy him.

Behaviour serves a need. There's always a reward in it for the person doing it. If your focus is on managing your dh's behaviour to make things bearable rather than getting rid, all you can do is work out what need he is meeting, what reward he gets. For example is it that the behaviour works to make you come and do something for him that he didn't want to do in the first place? In which case if you just want to avoid the kick off, do everything yourself, act as if you lived alone and only one adult was there to manage the house and don't put that pressure on him in the first place. If its that his emotional skills are so poor that he doesn't cope at all with the slightest frustration or being thwarted (even by a bloody sheet in the wrong place) it's avoiding frustrating him. But frankly I wish you'd stop worrying about how to enable him to be abusive less painfully to you and thought instead about enabling yourself. No marriage vows are about putting up with this kind of behaviour, it is his job to sort himself out, he's abandoned all responsibility and he doesn't see there's a problem, never mind has any will to change himself. He's supposed to be your partner, not your child.

You are worth so much more than this. Thanks

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RandomMess · 31/03/2016 13:42

Just huge hugs.

Yes you need to end it.

You certainly weren't be any worse off, you will get Child Maintenance, you have a minimum 50% claim on the marital home.

You will have him out of your life and that is priceless.

Flowers

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Ilovetorrentialrain · 31/03/2016 13:43

OP I agree with all PPs saying LTB but do know it's not that straight forward at times.

On a very practical note, strictly answering your OP and not getting into what a total dick he is (he really is). Then is a holiday with others (wider family) a possibility? A large holiday home somewhere coastal maybe? I find that kind of hol good for taking the focus away from any one person, everything is diffused. If your husband behaves like a tool at any point (he will) there will be other people to go and have a nice day out with. And also other witnesses - to either sympathise or even shame him into seeing his behaviour as awful.

Is that a possibility maybe?

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OliviaBenson · 31/03/2016 13:43

My DM stayed for the kids, or rather that was her excuse. She was just too scared to leave him. My childhood is marred by having to walk on eggshells around my dad. If I wound him up, mum would tell me off (easier to tell me off, rather than confront him over his unreasonable behaviour).

My childhood was horrific and I'm still dealing with the consequences. The worse thing is I really cannot forgive my mother for being so weak. I have almost no relationship with her now.

Please find the strength to leave op, staying is not the right thing to do, for you or your kids. Don't give your kids my life. He doesn't care about you, and he never will.

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pinkpeter1 · 31/03/2016 14:35

Oh man, this is exactly it: "For example is it that the behaviour works to make you come and do something for him that he didn't want to do in the first place?"

This is exactly it. Anyway, my stomach is is knots reading this. I think i am going to make plans. I cannot have my children damaged, I cannot have them blame me, I cannot have them not in my life as they are what i live for. I will have to find a way.
Thanks you to all those who replied. My anxiety will have to take a back seat and i will have to do it. But i will have to do it in a planned way.

The last time we discussed his behaviour and i said i couldn't deal with it any more he said, what do you want me to do then? I said, leave. He burst out of the study, into the living room where the children where and shouted at them, Mummy has asked me to leave, she wants me to leave this house! They were bewildered and i had to tell him in front of them to drop it right now. Dont say another word in front of these children. Leave the room right now and dont speak.
His anger just takes over. He did, and they had no idea what was going on. I told them he was annoyed and not to worry.

I have to get it into my head i am not responsible for his behavior, and what my and his family will say is not my problem. They are not living this life and they dont see it. We do.

I am fed up of telling him to not shout shut up at the kids. He just does nt listen to anybody but himself. If i leave, i will have to do it in a way like his ex wife did. The problem is i dont want to leave with two kids, i want HIM to leave. How can i make this happen? (i also still love in in a way, and i feel crushed that this might have to happen...devastated that i will have to choose to do this).

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Costacoffeeplease · 31/03/2016 14:51

Why do you love him? What on earth is there to love in a stroppy mardy arse who shouts at you and the children?

Maybe if you tell people exactly what he's like they'll give you support rather than thinking the sun shines out of his arse?

I know these replies will have been hard to read, but everyone just wants you to see how awful this situation is

Make your plans in the best way you can, and get out as quick as you can, you deserve so much better, and so do your children

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PhoenixReisling · 31/03/2016 14:51

It's time to go see a SHL, speak with CAB and maybe WA.

He abusive and probably won't leave and will up the anti...that whole scenerio where you asked him to leave and he shouted at the children, just demostrates what a manipulative bully he is.

Both you and your children, deserve to be free and happy.

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PhoenixReisling · 31/03/2016 14:53

You will probably find that your anxiety levels will quickly diminish once he is somewhat out of your life.

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Thurlow · 31/03/2016 14:57

Is he out of the house a lot so you have the ability to make calls and collect the paperwork?

Phoenix is right, you need to call specialists for advice. It would seem easier to simply walk out the house but, as you are married, you have as much right to stay in that house as he does. Do you have time to arrange for the free (is it a free half hour?) chat with a divorce lawyer to get some advice?

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pinkpeter1 · 31/03/2016 15:30

I dont know why i love him. Cos he is the father of my kids? Cos he didnt start out this way? Cos maybe i think at some level he cant help it? (i know that is nonsense).

I am just scared i can't provide for my children.....

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rumbleinthrjungle · 31/03/2016 15:33

All the agencies suggested here are good ones.

If you know he will kick off if you have this conversation with him, and rant and shout at the children (which suggests he wanted to scare and upset them in order to control/punish you, his bursting in there to shout 'mummy wants me to leave' at them didn't serve any other purpose, he wasn't communicating WITH them or for their benefit, he was using them to communicate with you) then you can control that by planning for the children to be out of the house, preferably overnight, before you talk with him.

Think of what he's likely to do. Then change the situation so he doesn't have that avenue available.

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MyFavouriteClintonisGeorge · 31/03/2016 15:40

I know there are bigger things going on, but I wanted to answer your holiday question.

Please go away with your children on your own and have a good time. You might be surprised what they want to tell you, with your DH out of the way. It could be very modest- a holiday flat or even a caravan at the seaside. The point is, it will be just you and them, no shouting or sulks. I think you need some space to restore you to something like yourself and for your children to reconnect with the better, inner you. Think of it as good preparation for leaving your DH.

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nicenewdusters · 31/03/2016 17:29

Pinkpeter1: so pleased to read your latest updates. Nobody on here expects you to suddenly say "Ok, you're all right, I'll leave him this afternoon." I should have left my relationship years earlier, we weren't married and had no children, but he almost destroyed me and I couldn't see which way was up.

You asked in response to my earlier post to you why does your husband act this way, you said you don't understand. I don't know why my ex partner behaved like he did. I have some ideas and theories years down the line, but I really have no idea. But it doesn't matter. Even if I'd known then what could/would I have done to change him? All I know is that the man who professed his love for me systematically took me apart.

I agree with other posters that you approach this very practically. Contact all the agencies already mentioned. When you know where you stand and how you want to proceed you can decide on your approach. It certainly needs to be without the children around, and you may need another adult with you - obviously not your parents.

Trust me, if I was able to leave my relationship then, you can now. It won't be easy, you'll have moments of self-doubt, there'll be lots of tears and anguish. But doesn't that sound like your life now ? I wish I could hold your hand and show you that I survived. That actually I more than survived, I rebuilt a whole new life for myself.

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Wolfiefan · 31/03/2016 17:35

Oh my lovely. My mum was you. Years in a relationship that outwardly looked fine but was anything but. She felt she couldn't survive financially alone.
She is happily divorced and happier than she's ever been. No more trying to anticipate his latest arsehole move and trying to shield us.
But we were older when she left. (I did ask her to leave him years earlier but she couldn't face it!)
Seek advice. Get your financial and practical stuff sorted.
Please don't allow your kids to grow up thinking this is what relationships should be though. You and they deserve so much better.

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scotsgirl64 · 31/03/2016 17:46

why are you still with this guy?....seriously you shouldn't have to put up with this behaviour ....not healthy for your dc to witness this kind of behaviour...he has some serious issues

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PamDooveOrangeJoof · 31/03/2016 18:37

My mum kicked my dad out just before my 7th birthday and when she told me I didn't cry because I didn't want to upset her.
I've thanked her so much since as if she had stayed with him, I'd have had a thousand more awful memories of him.
As it is, he said stuff to me and my mum over the years (in front of me) that will stay with me til my grave.
I thank her that by leaving him she shielded me from years more emotional abuse.

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