Why can't anyone see what a Twat he is?

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I feel a bit miffed! It is about mutual friends that ExH and I share.

I was married to ExH for 17 years. 4 years before I left him, I found out that he had been messing around with other women for the entirety of our relationship. One of his male friends told me, because he was angry that my ExH had been trying to kiss his wife at a party.

I stayed for those 4 years, because I really didn't want to break up my family (kids were then 7 and 5). So, I tried to make it work, but he carried on (it got worse, not better), and eventually I left. Before I left, he physically assaulted me, and once I was in my new house, he got in one night and did so again. I didn't tell anyone about this, except for my now DH. I didn't want him to be arrested, it would have impacted the kids. If I had told my Dad, he would have gone ballistic. I wasn't seriously hurt, just shaken up.

He bought me out of the marital home, but that was in 2008 when property prices were at an all time low, so it was based upon a valuation that was about £70k less than what it's worth now. So I have lost out financially, somewhat.

Turns out that he had tried it on with every single female friend of mine. This was when we were in our home town and seeing friends regularly. As far as I know, none of them responded, but none of them told me about it either.

When I left, none of these friends supported me. I didn't get one text or call. I let that slide though and remained friends. Been friends at this point for 18 years and we are Godparents to each others children, so long term relationships. They were long distance relationships, given that we had by this time moved up North for work. So basically, texts/e-mails/FB/annual meet ups.

After I left ExH, I was very lucky to meet my now DH, after only a short while of OLD. 4 years later we married. We have now been together for 8 years and it's a lovely marriage. My friends all came to our stag/hen and the wedding. They all like DH. The kids like him too (they are much older now, 19 and 17)

ExH had a long term GF (4 yrs), but he cheated on her (surprise, surprise), and she has now left him. He moved her in to his home, despite knowing she had some serious anger issues, and he even left the kids in her care sometimes. Just before she left, when emotions were running high, she lost it and she attacked our DD (age 16 at the time). She went to Court for that just last Thursday, I have no idea what happened as the kids were cited but later told they didn't have to attend. I assume that means she changed her plea to guilty and got a fine. Anyway, she's now out of the picture.

So, here is my problem. My closest friends (it's 2 couples btw from home town), all seem to favour ExH over myself. Even though they all know what he did. They know he cheated a lot. The guys know he tried it on with their wives. They know his GF attacked DD. They don't know he assaulted me though. They don't know that he is always late with child support, meaning I sometimes go overdrawn. He lost his driving licence for a lengthy time, for Drink Driving, meaning that for about 2 years I was the only person who could ferry the kids to anything at all (clubs/school/events/friends houses etc). I doubt they know this.

I sent friends a message about 2 months ago, listing all the dates I was free for them to visit me this year, I got no reply. Then, last night, DD pipes up that she'll need to be at Dad's next weekend as these friends are all visiting. WTF?

I live only 30 mins away from ExH, and this is the first I've heard that they are making the 6 hour journey up here. So, they are defo not planning to see me, even for a quick coffee. I know we haven't broken friends over anything. They still like FB pics and stuff. They still send birthday cards.

I have never bad mouthed ExH to the kids and I have always allowed whatever access he wanted, which for the most part was 5 nights with me and 2 with him. They think the sun shines out of his arse, and I suppose I wouldn't want that to be any different, but it's so hard having to smile sweetly when they regale me with tales of what they've been up to with their wonderful Dad. I feel like screaming to them all “He's a cheat, a drunk driver, a liar, he doesn't pay me child support on time and he hits women!” But of course, I never do.

Sorry, I don't know what I am asking. But that's helped actually, just writing it down. I suppose the question is, do I just write these friends off now? I think I have to, don't I?

I should say that I don't feel angry often. Thank goodness, I have a lovely DH and a very happy life now. I am just a bit at the news of this visit. I probably sound stupid.

I think that actually, these people know enough about what OP's ex has done really. She may have not told them every detail but they're treating her like shit really; are being incredibly insensitive and aren't true friends. If they can't be bothered to get in touch whilst in the area, they have made their choice and, as hard as it may seem, it's best to drop them.

I've been let down by friends who choose (and it is a choice) to ignore an ex''s maltreatment of me. It was hurtful - they knew enough - not all the details, but enough. I decided in the end that the only way I could stop their lack of support was to actively manage its impact on me. I couldn't do anything about their friendship with ex but I could stop it hurting me. I defriended on facebook and went NC for a time. In fact, I am only just letting them back into my life - but I get to choose the part they will play in my life this time around. They've gone from being close friends who I thought I could rely on to 'acquaintances' who I suspect will never again be given the chance of my own loyalty or close friendship. Their loss. The trust is gone. I decided to take control of how much it was hurting me and minimised/modified the nature of our relationship. They may or may not be bothered by this but, now, it doesn't matter.

Your children too need to know, at some stage, what a shit their father was and only you can choose the timing opf this. They will still love him but once you think the time is right you need to sit down and quietly explain how he hurt you and let down you all as a family. I think children need to learn that some behaviours are unacceptable; that it's just not right to treat partners in particular ways. My own ex was (verbally) aggressive and I would reiterate to my children that such behaviour was most definitely out of order and not something that any partner should accept. I would hate to think that they would grow up thinking that it was okay for a husband to behave in that way to his wife. But - it's your choice about when and how to do it.

OP, I feel for you. Find new friends. I don't think these people are worth the emotional distress they're causing you. Actively minimize their impact on you (they know some of what he's done and it's convenient for them to ignore it. People can be shallow). Move on, manage the hurt in the way you can. I get how hard that is - I really do - but they're not worth it.

Op they were joint friends but did they originally know your exh before meeting you? My dh has alot of couples friends but the link is the men of the couples. I think of them and their wives as my friends but I know if we ever split i would be unlikely to see them again. I'm wondering if this is the set up for you? Still frustrating if so, but it sounds like you've done an amazing job building a lovely life for yourself despite his twattery, so I would let them go. You don't need them.

You seem a little bitter and feel hard done to. The past is the past, move on. Perhaps,these old friends don't like,your new DH. Concentrate on your DH and making new friends and new memories.

*rolls eyes

This sounds very much like my XH, he's 'a laugh' and everybody's best mate but is actually an abusive arsehole and I always joke that he got the friends in our divorce settlement. Some of our closest friends actually blanked me in the street. I never bad mouthed him but God only knows that he had told them about me

You know what? Fuck 'em, these people are not your friends. You have a lovely new DP and a new life, you don't need them

17 and 19 year old children (young adults, really) are quite old enough to be told the real, unvarnished truth about what a complete arsehole he'd been to you throughout your marriage.
No please don't do that. It would achieve nothing good, it can only hurt your children's relationship with their dad. Your children don't deserve that.

As far as the friends are concerned, you just have to let them go. It's a shame, but there's nothing you can do. They like him for different reasons to why you dislike him. His treatment of you doesn't affect them.

OP is probably feeling hurt at ex, + (and more so) the DCs sitting round table chatting and laughing and engaging with people who do not like her. She can cut the friends off yes, but if her ex is making those friends visiting him a matter of importance ie the DCs must be there then, of course its hurtful for OP. Why wouldnt or shouldnt it be? I think she would be less hurt if the DCs werent being involved in this way.

The DCs are grown, there are sensitive ways of conveying how one feels, and why. I dont talk to my DCs much about their dad I stay out of their relationship with him, but when they were growing up and there were certain things I felt they should know then, I did tell them. Enough to inform, but nothing "deep" . They still have a relationship with their dad, and thats fine

Perhaps the "children" also like the friends and want to see them? My stepson is 18 now, he pretty much chooses what he does nowadays. He still does alternate weekends etc, but if one side has something going on he swops things around to join us/his mum. And there's lots I'd like to tell him about his mum, but I just couldn't be that mean, he loves her. As he gets older he is more aware of what she's like. Probably is about us too!

Logical :

17 and 19 year old children (young adults, really) are quite old enough to be told the real, unvarnished truth about what a complete arsehole he'd been to you throughout your marriage.

No please don't do that. It would achieve nothing good, it can only hurt your children's relationship with their dad. Your children don't deserve that.

The behaviours can be separated out from their relationship with him. Do you think poor behaviour should just be condoned? His behaviour was not good in role-modelling how a successful relationship should work. His behaviour caused the partnership to fail. Why not label that as unwise behaviour? He made unwise decisions and seemingly chose to put his familial duties second. The children may still love him as a father but evaluate his decisions as not ones that make for a good relationship. This is okay, to adopt this approach.

Take note of what MadameJosephine has said, OP, as it's entirely possible that your ex has briefed against you from the time you first met these friends and, in the absence of any contradiction from you,, they have bought into his story/ies.

Ftr, my earlier post was not advocating that you tell your dc the truth about your ex according to your gospel, but he will continue to escape censure if you don't make them, your family members, and this particular group of friends, privy to his deficiencies and this can be done in a manner that is appropriate for each individual you choose to disclose to.

I wouldn't bad mouth him to the kids no you've done well not to do that. You've taken the high road and you know you are a better person than him! Often liars and cheats can have a lot of charisma but just because some people may find him fun to be around doesn't actually mean they prefer him. They probably know hes not to be trusted and isn't a good person. But a lot of the time people will overlook that in friends who are funny or throw a good party. After all they don't have to live with him just see him occasionally and then get to go back to their own lives. When it comes down to it though id imagine they have a lot more respect for you than him.
If your children ever directly ask you about him though I would answer honestly. Especially in the case of your daughter. There may come a time when she does ask and I think actually when the children become adults it does more harm than good pretending a father did nothing wrong. x

Your ex sounds horrible. I don't understand the friends except -
you gave them a list of dates - did it include the date of the forthcoming weekend? They could be visiting the area and assume you are not free therefore assumed your ex would be and arranged to meet him?

Scottishthreeberry16
The behaviours cannot be separated from the children's relationship with their Dad because it all forms their opinion of him and how he has treated their mum.
It's not for mum to give details of what happened in their adult relationship. Just think about where it could lead. They go to Dad's and say 'Mum says you did xyz' Dad is then going to defend himself with 'well Mum did... and I bet she didn't tell you that she...' It's just puts them in the middle of a discussion that they should never be involved with. There is nothing good that can come out of that.
There is no condoning of behaviour happening because it's actually nothing to do with them. Your parent's relationship is their business. And it's not fair on children to burden them with the details. They could end up with an emotional dilemma of still loving the dad but feeling disloyal to their mum if they continue to see him. Kids (even adult ones) don't deserve to be put in that situation.

Why not? My DCs know their dad certainly wasn't lets just say "Mr Perfect" with me. But they have a parent/child relationship with him, thats different from the relationship I had with him. I know they think he's a prick re. the way I was treated in our relationship but they haven't run screaming for the hills "dad we never want to see you again". Why would/should they? He is their dad

We really do need to credit young adults with some intelligence, once in possession of facts they have their own thoughts make their own decision, its not exactly/always taking sides to the point of fallout

I hate the way women are forever the ones being told to take the high ground, don't say anything please don't say anything. F*k that. I don't actually believe in holding other people's bad secrets so they come up smelling of roses whilst you have that horrid knowledge that people do not like you, because they have been misinformed about you. That these people will cultivate links with your DCs whilst leaving you completely out of the loop, because they know it is hurtful

Women don't have to be martyrs, and young people are far more resilient than we think, not to mention have their own lives so won't necessarily take all our issues on board (nor should they) but there's no harm in them gently, fairly, practically - however you want to do it - hearing your side of a story/issue.

They will still make up their own minds, and that is fine. At least they know, rather than hearing other people's versions of who you are because as a mother and a woman you are supposed to keep quiet, hold sad feelings inside no matter what whilst people say what the hell they like about you, for all you know in your DCs presence so what "don't" they know anyway? Whats wrong with attempting to redress an imbalance, is it not ladylike or some such?

No way.

wonder if it's male mners who are saying not to tell your dcc the truth? Bet he's been giving his version of who is to blame from the get go. If you do not tell your story , who will?

Female here. And truth is relative.
Why do you feel it's important that your children know details of how their dad treated you?
How does it help anyone, but particularly the children, if they know your story?
Of course women don't have to be martyrs, but you can just tell the kids that the relationship didn't work, you wanted different things and that's all they need to know.
The only reason you would want to tell them, is so that they start to think a bit less of him. You resent him so much that you want other people on your side.

Logical

The behaviours cannot be separated from the children's relationship with their Dad because it all forms their opinion of him and how he has treated their mum.

I can see where you're coming from. I just disagree. They can still love him yet not love his behaviour. His behaviour was wrong. And - they're old enough to distinguish between their relationship with him as a father and his behaviour as a husband. What if his behaviour was just accepted? What if they took that as appropriate role model behaviour of how to behave towards a partner? What favours are you doing them? None really. I agree with the poster who says we should afford children emotional intelligence.

I'm not saying she has to bad-mouth him - merely to quietly explain what it was about his behaviour that was unacceptable to her.

What if they took that as appropriate role model behaviour of how to behave towards a partner?
If they don't know the details, then there is no influence to worry about.

I'm not saying she has to bad-mouth him - merely to quietly explain what it was about his behaviour that was unacceptable to her.
They don't need to know the details of what, they just need to know that his behaviour was unacceptable to her that that is why they split up.
At what point do you stop giving details? What if they split up over a fetish he had or infidelity had followed a sexless marriage? I'm not excusing the behaviour, but how much detail do your children really need to know?

You can talk to your children about what is and isn't acceptable in a relationship without having experienced it and telling them from personal experience.

I would guess that they are people who will do anything for an easy life. They don't want to take sides (and don't know the full truth) so would be happy to be friends with both of you. But you gave them a list of weekends you were free. He actually arranged something and gave a specific date. |They aren't malicious just a bit lazy.