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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Navigating dysfunctional family - what should I do?

42 replies

pandarific · 06/03/2016 14:33

This may be a long one, but it's all relevant to the current problem. Some of you might remember my Christmas post To hate my sister about my miserable Christmas staying at my mother's house in my home country, with my adult sister behaving awfully.

Unfortunately, it's still rumbling on.

In one of my posts on that thread I mentioned hiding in my mother's car on the driveway to get away from my sister, because she'd been following me around screaming at me. What happened in the leadup to that was this. My mother and I had been supposed to go into town shopping in the morning. When I got up that morning my sister was in the kitchen with my mum and dad, and I could see she she was in a bad mood and about to kick off, so I absented myself and went for a shower. In the shower I could hear raised voices, and when I got out it had escalated into screaming, so I got dressed, grabbed my bag and phone and just left the house. My mum met me in town several hours later and we did go shopping, though it wasn't exactly a happy atmosphere.

My sister had gone into town on her own, and met us to get a lift back home from my mum. I was very angry with her, but I didn't want a row. As we were getting out of the car back at the house, I said to her that I thought she needed psychological help - my honest opinion, based on her behaviour. She flew into a rage, started screaming at me how dare I insult her, etc etc, and when we got into the house she went straight into the kitchen to my mum. As I'm taking off my coat my mum then came out looking furious and said 'Apologise to your sister' I asked what I was supposed to be apologising for, she said for insulting her, I said, quite honestly, that I wasn't insulting her, my opinion was that her behaviour was very far from balanced or normal and that she needed some help.

So screaming and shouting from my sister, as I move around the kitchen trying to get something to eat, along the lines of 'HOW DARE YOU', and then she proceeded to rant and rave at me saying:
What would you know, LIVING ALONE IN ANOTHER COUNTRY [??]
At least I'm not living with SOME BOY THE SAME AGE AS [sister] [again, wtf? partner is a year and a half younger than me - not much in your 30s] who's too FAT AND LAZY to come visit her family at Christmas

My mother had gone into another room to avoid 'the row' - ie my sister being abusive to me, and my dad was ignoring it in another room, being the main target of my sister's abuse. At this point I stuck my fingers in my ears, grabbed my stuff and went to sit in the car. My mother came out twice to try to get me to come inside - because my old friend was coming to pick me up so we could go out for the evening, and my mum told me she didn't want my friend to see me sitting in the car and thinking there was trouble in our family. ...right.

My partner and I love each other very much, and are planning to get married and have children. His family are lovely. He didn't visit with me for christmas because he had bought a flat recently (which we both live in) and with having to unexpectedly remodel the whole thing once chipboard had been removed to reveal crumbling walls, simply did not have enough money for flights. My family had been told this well in advance of Christmas. We'd been calling and texting regularly, also because I was worried about visiting, as my sister had been awful the year before as well. So, I called him, and I told him everything. He was understandably pissed off. I managed not to see my sister again much until I left, but I was gutted and exhausted by it all.

Since then, the following has happened:
A few days later: My sister 'apologises' via text 'I'm sorry BUT you called me a name...'
I let my mum and sister know that my partner does know what happened.
My sister says I shouldn't have told him what she said as we were 'having a domestic' - um, no, she was following me around screaming abuse in my face.
My mother says 'family things are to be kept private' and blames me for 'causing upset' by telling him what happened. I tell her he is my partner and the man I am going to marry and that we keep no secrets from each other.
My mother reiterates that 'the row' was my fault because I called my sister names - FFS...

I asked my sister to apologise to my partner, either via text or a phonecall - neither of us would have hung on to it if she'd just apologised. I suspected she wouldn't as she honestly thinks she'd 'done nothing wrong' but she eventually said she would apologise. She never did - oh well.

The current problem is that it is her 30th birthday soon and yesterday my mother rang to tell me that she would like us all to go out to dinner, and can I and my partner come over to celebrate it. I said I could fly in on a saturday and back out on a sunday, flights are cheap and that would be fine. My mother then asked if my partner could come. I said probably not. She, in a tone of great shock, asked why. I answered that sister had never apologised to him, and he's still understandably a bit cross about it.

My mother then went off the deep end and told me that I had 'better fix this' as it was all my fault and I'd caused the whole thing by 'blabbing' to him what my sister had said, called me 'big mouth', the whole deal. I got angry and rang off. Cue profuse text apologies, she loves me very much, she will get my sister to apologise etc etc. My partner and I receive perfunctory apologies by text.

Today I sent her happy mother's day message, told her about flowers being delivered. She thanked me, mentioned that my sister had told her she had apologised, so all was okay now. She said then that 'being honest what kicked all this off was [partner] not coming for Christmas', but not to worry, it's all in the past!

I'm completely exhausted with all this. Can someone please tell me how it is possible in her mind that, even with all of the hideous behaviour my sister has behaved, it is all my fault? How is any of this my fault? Have I lost the plot, mumsnet? I'm Sad. I feel like I do everything right, am a nice and loving person, and my mother basically cares about me about one quarter as much as she cares about my sister. I can tell that my mum is really pissed off with me, and I just feel it's so incredibly unfair.

Another aspect to the drama is that partner and I have decided that we've stood up to them now, so we will go to visit for the dinner. I'm very worried about our staying in my mother's house as this gives sister the perfect trapped audience if she decides to go off on one, but equally I know my mother will be upset if I book into a hotel nearby, and she's already angry with me for 'causing upset'.

God I'm tired. Sorry this is so long, I'm just so confused and exhausted by it all.

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 06/03/2016 17:03

This was never for AIBU so am glad this is now in Relationships.

People from dysfunctional families end up playing roles. You are the scapegoat for your family of origin's inherent ills, that is the role that has been assigned to you and that will remain so. You cannot reason with people like your mother and sister; such people are disordered in thinking. They also will never apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions.

Your sister is the favoured "golden child" in this scenario and your father is weak because he is her hatchet man and bystander. He has failed to protect you from his wife's mad excesses of behaviour and he cannot be at all relied upon. Your parents behaviour has been a cause of familial dysfunction between your sister and you.

You need to go no contact with your family of origin; you will get no sense of peace otherwise. I would also suggest you read and post on the "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these pages.

pandarific · 06/03/2016 17:18

Perhaps it was not the best thing to do to tell my DP what she'd said, but it wasn't intended as shit stirring. I hate hate hate the secrecy my family keep around my sister's behaviour. I find it a horrible heavy burden for me, and it always has been. When I was a teen and young adult my friends knew nothing of her foul behaviour and seemed to think I had this perfect family life - which I also felt the pressure from my family to keep up the front. I tell my DP everything, and he tells me everything.

I was very upset at the time and completely on my own, my mum and dad were completely useless - and who in the hell do I have to talk to about this sort of stuff? And why should I keep silent? I think just enables her, as she never feels any negative consequences. So I told him where I was and why, and what she'd said. I don't regret it, because why should I carry all this on my own? I don't know, it probably was a bad idea, but that;s where I as coming from.

To the poster who asked why DP and I hadn't bought a place together - at the time he was looking to buy ready and the idea of being tied down like that terrified me, so though he would have been happy for me to go in on it with him, I didn't. I look back now and find it odd how I felt, but I was just scared. I'm not scared any more, we're really happy and settled.

OP posts:
Fishface77 · 06/03/2016 17:20

Book into that hotel.
Only meet in public places. You don't want your sister to kick of and you and your partner to be trapped!

whitehandledkitchenknife · 06/03/2016 17:26

Unfortunately panadarific talking to your family won't help your cause. You're right, why should you keep silent? But choose your audience. Your family dynamics are running on well oiled dysfunctional lines - you the scapegoat, sis the 'golden child' and mother and father the enablers. It wouldn't matter if you were the reincarnation of Mother Theresa, you wouldn't be heard.
Time to consider letting them go.

Bunbaker · 06/03/2016 17:33

By all means tell your partner how stressful your family are, but really there is no need to tell him all the horrible things your sister says about him.

Teenage girls do this because they are being bitchy, and by passing on the messages it is as if they are in collusion with the person who is being bitchy in the first place.

pandarific · 06/03/2016 17:34

My poor mum and dad though. I feel sorry for them as much as I feel angry with them, as they put up with her all the time - I know they do love me, and I love them both. I won't let them go, because when my sister isn't there we have a lovely time, and they like my partner a lot. So I suppose what I want is to keep my relationship with them, and avoid engaging with my sister.

OP posts:
pandarific · 06/03/2016 17:37

It's not really the same thing, is it though Bunbaker? Anyway, I don't intend to be in that situation ever again with her, so it's unlikely to reoccur.

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pandarific · 06/03/2016 17:39

So, I'm looking at hotels nearby where we can stay if we go over. Would it be best to tell my mother that we are staying in a hotel as a treat to use the spa facilities or similar, rather than tell her the real reason?

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pigsinbutter · 06/03/2016 17:39

your situation sounds awfully similar to mine! i have been no contact with my family (mother and brother) for nearly 2 years now - it's been bliss. all of this was instigated by my brother physically attacking me in front of my kids, all because it was my turn to make lunch and it was late when we were all in france on a family holiday. my mother then backed him up, blaming me. i said right then i'm off and i can't take this anymore (i am 40 ffs). i was definitely the scape goat, and they were definitely excusing allowing and i think encouraging my brother to behave violently.

but i know it's an extreme remedy. but i agree with the others who say that you are the family scape-goat. what really helped me was a variety of things, but lots and lots of stuff on narcissistic mothers (sounds more like your sister is a narc tho) and how to handle those kinds of family dynamics. 2 things really helped - realizing that some people are addicted to dramas, which i think that your family may be - there seems to be an awful lot of stirring the pot on all sides. the 2nd thing was reading how to handle this kind of abuse - there are lots of tactics, but anything which fuels the fire will perpetuate. your sister wants drama and attention and will do anything to get it.

i have to agree with those who said that you made the situation worse by telling her she needs therapy - she clearly does, but why are you responsible for making her see that? really you are the last person she will listen to and she has ot find her own route there.

the best tactic is called 'stoning'- as in being like a stone. if you are unreactive to their insinuations, jibes etc - then eventually they will find you boring and lose interest. try and react in low key ways to whatever they say. talk to your husband, but you know - they don't need to know what you two say. mostly - DON'T REACT DRAMATICALLY - but do do do learn how to have boundaries. as with small children - make sure that the boundaries are clearly spelt out and enforce them.

as for your visit - i would stay somewhere else - sorry, but its your decision. and you want to have an escape route. i would say " we are really looking forward to attending, but of course, we will not tolerate any negative comments about me/my husband" and explain that if everyone is going to get on, there has to be a basic level of respect.

they will - obviously - test these boundaries. but make sure that you react calmly (hard hard i know) - saying something like "i am sorry that you feel x.y.z but it was not my intention to say that", or "i am sorry you feel like that but i reject your negative views of my character" etc.

there are some really good suggestions on how to deal with specific things like this in "mothers who can't love" by susan forward.

i really know who tiring it all is but the best thing that i ever did was to really realize how the negative stereotypes of me were damaging, and that i had to get distance from it. it really sounds to me like your family is doing the same.

and it's their problem - you cannot be responsible for thier shitty dynamics. parents are responsible for being fair and loving to all the children that they have. children, whatever age we are, are not the ones responsible for ensuring that the family works well.

i hope that you find peace, and that this can happen with your family and that you can find happiness with them, but in the meantime please protect yourself.

sykadelic · 06/03/2016 17:48

If you're going to the birthday dinner, and your boyfriend is going too, then it's a good opportunity to start setting boundaries. You need a safe place to retreat to and a hotel is a good place for that.

Tell your mother that you're both coming but to keep the peace you're staying in a hotel nearby, that it will be better for everyone.

I actually don't have an issue with you telling your boyfriend what she said, but I don't think an apology from her to him was necessary. My DH also gets told everything, but he wouldn't care about an apology for him because he doesn't care what others think, he cares about me not being upset.

Her behaviour is only okay if everyone is okay with it. You're not okay with it and you don't need to be okay with it. "Just how she is" isn't an excuse.

I'm not sure an event "all about her" is something I'd want to go to, but it would be a good place to start mending bridges and/or setting up your relationship how you would like it to be. It will be interesting to see if they act appropriately with your boyfriend there.

Good luck!

hedgehogsdontbite · 06/03/2016 18:04

I think it's a bad idea to go to the birthday dinner. Why would you want to sit down and celebrate with someone you're on such bad terms with? Your family want to sweep it all under the carpet and pretend everything is fine. Stop playing the game. Tell you're mum you can't make it. Go visit your parents at a different time which doesn't involve your sis being the centre of attention (and stay in a hotel when you do).

Disengage from all the drama.

pandarific · 06/03/2016 18:16

Hedgehog A few reasons:

  • She is definitely unwell, and so is arguably not 100% in control of herself.
  • She wasn't always like this. She was always a bit difficult, but nothing like this.
  • I know that she does love me.
  • I don't want to contribute to making her worse by rejecting her completely.

We're both on board with controlled contact. I'm hoping that now that the boundaries have been drawn, and if we keep them drawn by staying elsewhere, that they'll be respected.

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hedgehogsdontbite · 06/03/2016 18:40

Fair enough.

springydaffs · 06/03/2016 18:47

I don't know if you mean respected from the heart? I hope not bcs that will never be the case. I'm sorry but I do mean never.

All you can do is protect yourself. That's it. You will never get them on board. So, staying in a hotel? They will kick off big time. You will wrangle and wrangle, explaining in a million different ways why you are staying in a hotel - none of it will stick, they won't hear any of it. They were attack and attack you for breaking the family code.

As long as you know, and accept, this code is never - ever - going to change, it makes sense to protect yourself regardless how they kick off. Then kicking off is a given.

Bit ime I had to find this out for myself. Yy it helps when other people say it (largely to protect me from ultimate despair when all my attempts are wholly fruitless) but I had to keep trying. So painful!

redexpat · 06/03/2016 20:51

If you went LC or NC with your sister, would your parents stay in contact with you? I can see this ending in NC for everyone.

I wouldn't tell them which hotel ou are staying at either. I can see the drama following you back to the lobby, phone calls being put through at unsociable hours etc.

springydaffs · 06/03/2016 23:13

Yes, they will be out of their minds if you don't fall in with the family script. Their lives depend on it (I'm not exaggerating).

I am LC with my parents (though nc with my siblings). My parents are ancient now and somehow we jog along. They have accepted my NC with my siblings - Or at least they don't mention it. Bit of a miracle really. They don't accept it at all, they think I have mh problems and that keeps them quiet I suppose (the family were at one point circulating downloaded mh/pd dx, trying to decide which one/s I have). The irony is they are as mad as a box of frogs, the lot of them.

pandarific · 30/03/2016 23:22

Just wanted to update. I stuck to my guns and we are staying in a hotel for my sisters birthday, getting in at 5pm and leaving the next day at 10am. Quite a flying visit but those were the only routes available and I wasn't about to take annual leave for it.

I'm glad I've done it now but I suspect it will be used as guilt ammunition by my mum at some point.

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