How to ensure equality after children?

[Heirhelp]

So I have lost count of the number of threads about partners not pulling their weight within the house and with childcare. Our baby is due soon and currently DH and I do equal amount of household stuff, with fairly strict division of who does what. I am planning to take a year off work and then maybe go part time. I read an article last year which suggested even in relationships where things were shared equally pre children that post children, even if both working the same hours Mums end up doing more of the work. How can I prevent this happening?

I agree that it's the thinking about everything and organising appointments, activities, dinner money, clean clothes, school admin, etc, etc, that is the real problem.

It is very wearing, as it is dull, time and brain consuming (have I done it, what needs to be done, ?!) and is not really appreciated because it is just boring family admin.

I would change that, if I could.

Big thing is not to fall into the fairly universal societal assumption that women are "better" with babies - normally they are better because they get all the practice and then it becomes assumed they have some innate hotline to empathy and baby stuff that a man can't have.

After DD was born I was very ill so DH did a lot of baby stuff including bathing her (the midwife showed him how).
So I can look back and say I never ever bathed my baby - DH did it all.
He also happens to be better at cheering DD up when she is down.

As for the housework side - if you take a year off and stay at home by default you will do all the housework and cooking and after a year, even if you go back to work it will be pretty much ingrained that you will continue to do this.

Also, be very aware of the phrase "we have agreed". I researched division of household tasks as part of my degree studies and generally, whenever this phrase was uttered and you did more probing it became very clear that the man had put forward a position and invited the woman to agree with it. These decisions (such as how women needed to be at home for a year) generally advantaged the man in terms of not doing housework and keeping his career and hobbies but would cause a huge change in the woman's life. What was interesting was that most women were convinced they had agreed to a jointly arrived at position but it was so heavily loaded with assumptions of men's routines changing almost not at all that it became very clear which women were, in about 10 years time, going to realise they had been talked into a position that they actually hadn't decided on, they'd just ended up that way and they were a bit pissed off.

Now, whenever I hear the phrase "we have agreed" I always take it with a pinch of salt.

If the current dynamic is he puts things off and you like to do things straight away, then this dynamic is likely to continue and if you're going to be home, this probably means the dynamic will become more extreme. You can not control his behaviour but you can control your own, start as you mean to go on and resist the urge of the path of least resistance because that will mean, more responsibility.

If you don't want to treated like a 1950's housewife, don't act like one. Lower your standards, not your expectations.

I second the comment about taking shared parental leave - DH had always done his share of household stuff and was very hands-on with the baby, but I don't think he really got the relentless nature of being at home until he did it! I went back after seven months and he had two months at home. This made my return to work easier as I didn't need to stress about DD settling into nursery at the same time.

Our original plan was that we'd both drop to four days a week so only three days of childcare would be needed, but his employer didn't support him doing this. However he's just started a trial of compressed hours (working 10 days over 9), so he gets every other Friday off. Would your DH be able to do this? Don't assume that you should make all the adjustments to working life.

I'd also second the comment about household admin aka 'wife work'. What's he like at the moment - does he book his own dentist appointments, get presents and cards for his side of the family, sort out flowers for his mum on Mothers Day? I have never done this for DH, but did point out when we moved in together that some family members might assume I was responsible and judge me if he didn't do cards/ presents etc, then reminded him of this fact when it came to baby presents/ sending photos to family members etc.

The different standards might cause a problem when you're at home all the time - it would be easy for you to pick up his 'jobs' like emptying the recycling if he puts it off and you find it annoying. It might be useful to have a chat about this - one thing I've found is that if you leave stuff until later (like my DH does), there can be some baby-related issue later that means you don't get round to it. Plus once the baby is mobile, having piles of stuff (to 'put away later') around the house just gets in the way. Does he see what needs to be done and do it, or do you have to point it out all the time (adding to the household admin burden)?

I think it's easy to assume control of all things baby-related in the early months when you're at home, which can make it hard to let your partner do anything because 'he won't do it right' or would take too long. You have to hand over control if you want him to be an equal parent. For example DH signed DD up for swimming class and he's responsible for booking it, paying for it, taking her there etc. I don't get involved apart from going to watch a couple of times!

And a possibly controversial one - I couldn't get breastfeeding established so went onto formula quite early. This meant that feeds/ bedtime etc were split evenly from the start, and DH would do the night feeds one weekend night so I got some sleep. I had planned to mix feed once I had got breastfeeding established, and I can see that if you can mix feed or express bm so your partner can do some of the feeds, this reduces the burden on you and means he has more experience of looking after the baby. The mum friends I know who have exclusively BF are the ones who haven't been able to be away from the baby for very long until the baby was older, which I would have found very difficult. But your mileage may vary, all babies are different etc.

Women are overwhelmingly more likely to either be the SAHP or work part-time. There's your inequality right there.

Dividing chores are one thing but dividing finances are another matter all together. Think about your long term financial security with a diminished income, savings and pension of your own before making any decisions that you might regret in the long term.

And as for 'who empties the dishwasher washer' type arguments, they're solvable, be honest and direct. Don't be a martyr. And get a cleaner if poss.

1. dont do "competitive tiredness. That way madness lies

2. when he gets in from work his downtime needs to include the baby, so your downtime can exclude the baby. Whether he bathes baby pr takes them for a stroll. And whether your downtime means cooking dinner or just having a cuppa. You each need 30 mins of doing something else

3. the first time he says he is off to the shops or somewhere post birth, bundle up the baby in the pram or carseat and send them with him. The first time alone with the baby can be terrifying but doing it with a newborn is actually easier as they need nothing. Delay this at your peril

One advice:
Remind his that for the year you are on ML, your JOB is to look after the baby. He would never accept that a nursery worker is doing her shopping, her ironing etc... whilst 'looking after' his child. So it should be with you.
Spend the year looking after your dc and don't take on board more than the minimum needed to feed you and your lo. Maybe put a lot of washing to go and that's it.
So keep up with 'your' and 'his' jobs.

And then ensure he is massively involved with the baby once he is here. Getting up at night (even if not as much as you), putting them to bed in the evening, changing nappies and as soon as there are bottles of milf/food to think about, ensure that he feels it's his responsibility too.
We had a system where we were taking turns getting up with dc2. With dc1,
Dh was doing the last night feed at 11.00pm (so I could go to bed early and have a few hours of sleep) and then I would get up. But then, unlike dc2, dc1 was a very good sleeper so not that many 'getting upp' needed!

And then re work ... well I would think VERY carefully at going part time etc... Why would you want to do that, why do feel it has to be you doing that etc etc.

Oh yes, if he tends to oout things off and you step up then you can be sure you will end up doing all the HW whilst on ML and all the while he will 'learning' to do less ald less.

You will have to learn to leave him to do 'his tasks' and to ot step up. If he needs help, he is able to ask!

If you bottle feed, then you do the night feeds he is at work the next day and he does the night feeds the days he isnt at work the next day. And you each get a lie in sat/sun til an agreed no-guilt time.

The admin of birthdays and Christmas etc.

I do stuff for my family and he does stuff for his, if he forgot to send a birthday card to either of his parents it would just be tough.

My baby is due in a few weeks and I have had similar thoughts. We had long chats before ttc and agreed our ground rule/expectations up front. Never the less you can't help but wonder if it will work out.....I remain hopeful.

For us we agreed:

• shared parental leave - we are both self employed so will share SMP.
• p/t childcare help. we live in London without family so unfortunately had to sign up before the baby was even born but i'm glad we had the discussion to make sure we were on the same page with our expectations and agree financial commitment and what we were happy to forgo to make sure it was affordable.
• hired a cleaner! We have been able to afford a cleaner for a long time but i saw it as incredibly indulgent. Its the best decision i ever made, wish i had done it a long time ago! We both tidy up after ourselves but our cleaner comes once a week and tackles the messy jobs.
• baby laundry basket - both our responsibility
• set up regular online grocery order to come on a Friday night so we have essentials for the week
• tag team night feeds - he is a night owl, i'm a morning lark. play to our strengths i can function if i am awake from 3am, he can function if he doesn't sleep until 1.30am.... so lets hope baby doesn't wake between 1.30 -3am :-)

This is our "plan", but you know what they say about plans and all that jazz... i'm optimistic but sure there will be hiccups once baby gets here.

My friends gave me some tips to stick to your "rules" and don't start to slack otherwise its a slippery slope, allow your other half to take charge and make decisions (not great with my type A personality) when it comes to the baby and don't take over.

You will never have equality because

You like things done straight away and he likes to out things off. So you will do them yourself rather than wait

He is going to do paid work FT and you part time. So you and everyone else will assume that his paid work is more valuable and important that your unpaid work

He earns more than you .

I agree that during your maternity leave you should focus on looking after the baby . You know, like a nanny does . Don't take on any extra jobs from " his list " . Otherwise you will end up doing them for the next 20 years .

DowntonDiva - that's a great list, I wish I'd had the foresight to come up with something like that.

Another thing I would add is agree how finances are going to work. It may not impact you as you're both going to share childcare, but I believe it's important that neither parent should be financially disadvantaged by having DC, so we pool all finances for joint expenses, and then have some fun money for ourselves. It's not a perfect system, but I'm very glad we have something in place.

This maybe an unpopular view but keep working. Ime of having been both a sahm, ft worker and pt worker over the years, it's really difficult to maintain an equal footing in a relationship when one of the two stops working or works a lot less.

It's psychological above all - the feeling of being 1/2 of a truly equal partnership means the"doing" follows (with ups and downs and a need to compromise and negotiate of course...)

Thanks for all the ideas. I will chat with DH about them today. Day to day finances are already organised so we have the same amount of 'play/pocket money' and anything household or pregnancy related comes out of family money but we do need to look at the impact of part time working on pensions. Lots of interesting ideas about shared leave and both working part time. Currently out expectations for taking time off sick with child is DH would do it as his jon can be flexible where as I have no flexibility.

We've totally shared parental leave, now we both work ft and kids are nursery we split drop.offs, pick.ups, sick days 50/50.
We have a jobs rota but also have some his and hers jobs.
We do our own families admin - cards etc.
OH does most if the stuff like booking appointments, talking to nursery etc. I make sure kids have clothes that fit, snacks, bottles ready etc.
I don't think equality would happen with one of you taking the full yrs leave and then being pt tbh.

I took a whole year and have gone down to four days a week. My day off is to do things with our daughter not housework so we go to toddler groups in the morning and then go out somewhere in the afternoon. We do the morning nursery drop off together and I do the pick up as I work close to nursery and finish first. I do all the washing, my husband does all the cooking. We have a cleaner once a fortnight and both do a quick tidy together when she is in bed. We do our own family's cards etc.

One of the reasons I want to go part time is that my job requires a lot of hours, approx 55 a week where as DH work 9 TO 5 or less with lots of long breaks.

Pensions are a big issue - you might be able to buy back any time you take off on maternity leave and also make extra contributions to your pension if one of you works fewer hours than the other .

This is absolutely essential if you are not married .

What you can't do is " buy back " the chances of promotions and experience that you lose by being part time .

Another problem with some jobs is that when you go part time, your employer expects you do to the same amount of work but for less money .

I think it's easy to assume control of all things baby-related in the early months when you're at home, which can make it hard to let your partner do anything because 'he won't do it right' or would take too long. You have to hand over control if you want him to be an equal parent.

This, very much so.

I may be completely off the mark here, but after years on MN I've seen a ridiculous number of threads where the woman takes responsibility for everything related to the baby during her maternity leave, to the extent that there are occasional posters who haven't even left their baby with their DH for a few hours by the time the baby is 8, 9 months old.

And I've seen a ridiculous number of threads where women complain that their DH doesn't do anything with their DC.

I might be extrapolating completely wrong here, but it strikes me that there is a real correlation between assuming responsibility for everything in the first year, and then being surprised when the man slowly starts to back away from anything involving serious responsibility with their DC.

Agree with comments about shared parental leave. Biggest problem we had with it though was that even when I was back at work full time and hubby off, people (eg his family!) would still insist on contacting me to organise stuff. Did my head in!

The point being that however hard you try, much of society is still working against you, although I think we are seeing gradual change.

I agree with Thurlow.
You never know how it's going to go, until your baby is here, tbh, as babies can be soooooooooo different.
The best thing that happened with us (by accident really, not design) was that dh looked after dc1 for a month after I went back to work when he was 2 1/2 months old. (Back in the day, you only got 3 months maternity leave) Having had that experience, dh knew how hard it was to be with dc1 all day, and there was never any of the "what do you do all day?" bollocks. Don't forget to let your dh take responsibility for your baby from a young age would be my advice, then afterwards, try to think of "equal amount of leisure time" rather than "dividing the jobs in half". It's just about starting at the other end and working in a different way.
I doubt if there's a parent on the planet who is still doing things the way they "planned" before dc arrived