Really worried

[Milkinthepyramids]

I have no one to talk to about this (my mum - who I could tell- is unwell and I don't have any friends I could tell). I've seen other posters who seem to find the act of writing it all down cathartic in itself so here goes. This is likely to be LONG!

So basically I'm worried that my marriage is failing. I had a 'conversation' with H on Monday night where a lot of stuff was brought into the open and we both acknowledged the relationship is awful and we're unhappy but I need some outside perspective; it all keeps going round in my head and I can't see what's what.

We've been married for 6 years, together nearly 10, known each other for over 15. Have 2 children of 4 and 7 months. He works full time, I'm a Sahm (since birth of 1st child). Own a 3 bed semi, no major financial worries, very happy in with area, children settled. All fairly standard.

Problems then. Over the past few years but specifically since I became pregnant with our second child, I've felt him gradually disengaging to the point where his contribution to running the house has been negligible. I am responsible for everything, from cleaning the toilets, to mowing the lawn, to taking the bins out, to admin stuff, to Diy...etc. He used to have 'man tasks' that he would do (usually after being asked several times and then posting on Facebook how manly he was for putting up a fucking shelf) but stopped doing this over the years. I do what I can myself now and my dad picks up the slack.

The one hous thing he is responsible for is the mortgage. We needed to remortgage last summer to fund a project, we'd known this was going to happen for 2 years. Yet he left things and fucked things up again and again until we had to borrow several thousand pounds from my parents to tide us over while he finally sorted the mortgage out. He has never thanked them for this.

When I was pregnant he had very little interest in the pregnancy (kept drinking in late stages even though I asked him to cut back, went the wrong way when I was in labour as he'd never checked route to hospital). Although as a Sahm I accept that most housework is my responsibility he is in a job where he has 18 weeks off a year (one at the moment, guess what!) and last Easter I pointed out that he could do a bit more in the house, as I was beginning to struggle a bit. He claimed he didn't know what needed doing. I wrote a list breaking down what should be done daily, weekly, monthly etc. List sat there for a week with no change in his behaviour so I gave in and threw it away. That Easter I also decorated DD1's new bedroom. I had to actually ask for his help when I realised I physically couldn't reach the higher bits (NB I got HUGE in pregnancy-have the devarication to prove it). I remember being around 38 weeks and struggling to clear out tip of a car on a beautiful summer afternoon, came back in to find DD plonked in front of Frozen and him asleep on sofa.

Basically there are loads and loads of examples I could give of him being irresponsible or lazy or thoughtless and it especially got to me as I struggled with a difficult late pregnancy and car crash birth. There's no point detailing everything but hopefully that gives a pictur.

We don't have sex. Of course we don't, I resent him so much I couldn't stand him touching me. And he hasn't come on to me since dd2 was conceived anyway. It was very much a feeling of 'thank fuck she's pregnant, we don't need to do that again!'

The 'conversation' was initiated as he proudly to,d me he'd got round to paying in some cheques he'd been given, first one dated early December, others from Christmas. I told him it seemed extremely disrespectful to the people who'd given them that he couldn't even be arsed to pay them into his bank account for 2 months (he spent the money a while ago though, he is extremely naive about finances). This started an argument and I decided to say the previously unsaid and told him quite clearly I was unhappy and why.

His first response, tediously, predictably, was that our relationship is dysfunctional because we don't have sex. Next, equally tediously, was that he feels told off and nagged by me. I said these were symptoms not causes and asked him to think why those things happened. His response, he is worried he is depressed as he has been feeling a growing sense of apathy over the years to me, our life, and even our girls. He doesn't like his job and wants to leave, and he feels unsupported by me as I don't seem interested in it.

I brought up the subject of porn as I twigged during last pregnancy what turning the pc on as soon as I went to bed, then wiping the history meant. He didn't deny watching it. I said I couldn't stop him as he's a grown man but I wasn't happy about it. What really worried me though was a short video I found in the downloads folder featuring a girl purporting to be 17 and an older man talking about her being a virgin. I asked him how the hell he though I'd want to sleep with him when he'd been watching this shit. The thing is, I don't really believe he watched it, I think he accidentally downloaded it and didn't know it was there. He denied it and said he 'usually just watches women taking their clothes off' but not very vehemently and that 'usually' is stuck in my head.

Anyway... Since than he's been to the gp who's has referred him for counselling. Nothing has been diagnosed but gp suggested anxiety. I don't wish to make light of mental illness, I have suffered from depression on and off (and worst PND after first child) since adolescence. Oddly it lifted during pregnancy and hasn't come back. Great for me but I am wondering if my mind being free of depression is helping me see H clearly for first time. But his anxiety. I think he mainly told gp about his work worries which is where that came from. H also said anxiety and fear of failure was behind some family things like not booking a holiday this year (which he said he would) or only taking the girls to the same places again and again. I kind of get that, but how does anxiety explain leaving your shit lying around the house, or not checking the car when you said you would, or watching your wife struggle while lying on the sofa? He may have an issue with anxiety but there's a hell of a lot more going on.

Also by admitting his apathy to all things family he basically told me he doesn't care about me. I kept asking him why the apathy and he just said I don't know. That's quite hard to come to terms with.

He has in the last few days started doing stuff in the house, and I am able to sit here writing this as he's taken the girls somewhere new and will be out (hopefully) for a couple of hours. But we've got a long road ahead, and I am realising that so much damage has already been done I don't know if it's fixable.

Thanks for reading if you have! I'm going to press post without checking for typos now otherwise I'll never do it, so apologies for all of those!

[MarieThereseLouise]

OP you asked upthread for thoughts about the porn use specifically. From what I understand, frequent use is associated with (can cause) many of the things you mention so could have a huge bearing: the chemistry in the brain is affected and anxiety, depression, a 'flatness' about everything in real life is a direct result. Capacity for intimacy (on all levels) is compromised. The behaviours involved if it is being kept hidden also erode a relationship over time. It may not be possible to get more than temporary or surface changes if this isn't addressed. Hope this helps and I'm sorry you are going through this.

[Milkinthepyramids]

Lots more to think about, thanks. May not have much time to reply as overseeing breakfast at moment (!), MIL coming to stay for weekend later, which won't be at all awkward, and husband is still in bed...

I did admit to him I hadn't been supportive enough of work situation. When we had first child my wage was low enough that it wasn't financially viable for me to return to work, then I was made redundant anyway. Sorry I may have made it sound like I'd never consider returning to work, that's not the case, I'd just rather wait till children are in school. Dd1 starts in sept and obviously if things change dd2 may have to go in childcare for a time before she starts school. In theory I would consider shared working with H but 1, as mentioned before my earning potential is very low and 2, male teachers don't seem to work part time at all. It is the school rather than the job he's unhappy with and he is looking to leave but has very specific criteria for a new job. I have acknowledged to him that I haven't recognised the pressure he's under as sole breadwinner, but that doesn't mean his responsibilities end as he walks in the door.

Re porn, I wonder if he's been using it for a long time and sees it as normal. A feature of our early relationship was him constantly making demands of me to give him a lap dance, there was no attempt at making this appealing for me he almost said it in a joking way (as i suspect he knew it was never going to happen so he could just say it was my fault). I also know that the relationship he had prior to me was all about female dominance (it started out as him cheating on his then girlfriend with this woman and it was only ever based on sex. It stopped when we got together).

And that dodgy video makes me feel slightly sick in the context of him being a teacher.mhe denied watching it, which I do believe but surely he must have been perusing similar stuff for it to accidentally end up in the downloads folder.

Anyway, got to go, I really appreciate the responses and keep reading it all when I get a chance.

Ps, H still in bed!

[WhatsGoingOnEh]

I feel a bit sorry for him. I think you could get through this, but you'll both have to let go of a LOT of built-up resentment -- and honestly, I don't know how easy it is to do that.

Separation wouldn't affect your mortgage payments.

[Minime85]

Op there is so much going on here and I wondered for some of it if you were someone very close to me until you mentioned you had 2 daughters. I empathise with you and can also feel empathy for you DH. If you want to make it work you need to put aside the resentments that have built up and be kind to each other. And I mean just that be kind. But you both have to be wanting it or it can't work. I do believe you can save a marriage if you both want to. But you both have to be on the same page and it can't be for the kids. It has to be for you as a couple, your family unit and the kids. Could you do something small outside of the home in an evening just to give you something outside of the house and away from the dcs? Re DH I think, being the sole responsible person for mortgage myself, that his responsibility for that is huge. I feel it as a huge burden and I too have weeks off. I'm guessing he is in private education as I don't get that much time off and in my 'time off' I work a lot prepping and marking etc. It's unseen work which only those closest to a teacher see and realise how many hours we put in. That doesn't mean he shouldn't be part of the home too. Could he have a a job delegated to him ie clean bathroom or kitchen? I am speaking as a divorced full time teacher and mum to two dcs.

[Duckdeamon]

So he has a porn issue, and in the past sought to push your sexual boundaries, disregarding your wishes, then withdrawn from sex and used porn instead. That's a big deal and would be a "deal-breaker" for many.

Stuff doesn't "accidentally" get downloaded. You can have no idea what he's been viewing, it's all hidden.

[Pannacott]

Hmm the issues around sex and porn sound quite complicated, and a likely key issue in all this. It sounds like sex is an important aspect of life for DP, and likely a way that he manages emotional issues. When you say female dominance, I assume you mean that the female was doing the dominating, not that he was dominating her. The interesting thing about that is that it shows some flexibility in his sexual roles, which does suggest it reflects on his state of mind rather than being a compulsive fetish (which is also fine too!) I'd be careful of casting aspersions about the inappropriateness of watching porn that fetishises virgins just because he's a teacher, if there is nothing else that suggests anything dodgy about how he interacts with pupils. E.g lots of women fantasise about rape or powerlessness - it doesn't mean they want to be raped, so it's important to distinguish fantasy from actual intentions. It sounds like he has tried to involve you in his sex life more, but hasn't managed to engage you very well. Whether that's because he didn't make it very appealing to you, you don't like that kind of sex, or he's got a bit of a Madonna / whore thing going on, or something else, is unclear. But surely worthy of more exploration? Again, I'd suggest a good couples / sex therapist. TCCR are good if you are in London. So, I imagine he feels rejected and has retreated into a more rich fantasy sex life, which does exclude you. And so feeds into the mutual feelings of alienation and resentment. Obviously I'm speculating wildly, and this may all be way off the mark. But it might be helpful because sometimes just seeing that there may be a whole load of other stuff going on beyond what is apparent can help shift things to a more compassionate and productive perspective, iyswim. As pp said, the main issue seems to be the enmeshed resentment and irritation, which makes it hard to see beyond the immediate. But it doesn't seem like the problematic behaviour is at the level yet where it's unsalvageable.

[pippistrelle]

Really interesting and measured post, Pannacott.

[squaretoes]

I am in the process of ending a marriage almost exactly like this, although in my case I am also the sole wage earner. It has taken me years to realise it's not acceptable. I am much happier already. You deserve better. Your kids deserve a better role model.

[Pannacott]

(Thanks pipistrelle!)

[OnceMoreIntoTheBleach]

OP I'm currently going through divorce after a marriage almost exactly the same as you describe, except that I was also the breadwinner, which added to the pressure.

My ex was behaving exactly the same, including the porn and letting me mow the lawn etc while he watched tv.

I think I had managed to disempower him dramatically after years of me being in charge and asking and eventually telling him what to do BUT I only did this because I had to, because he NEVER showed any initiative.

Because he wasn't looking after us as I saw it, or standing up and being an equal adult in the relationship, I lost my desire to connect with him intimately. I felt like I had another child to look after, and he behaved the same. NOTE this was never about money. I never lauded it over him or felt resentful about earning more or ever made him feel bad about it all. It was just a difference in our chosen careers, and I don't care about money except to be secure.

He was definitely depressed, and I tried for years to get him to address it. I myself went back on ADs and had a full year of counselling and all the time was trying to get him to do the same, but he didn't.

That was the final straw for me, because I was trying so hard to salvage the marriage, but was doing it alone.

I wish it could have worked, for the DCs sakes, but I was fighting a losing battle, and I'm much happier now.

His apathy had translated into an out of sight, out of mind attitude towards the DCs, as you fear for yours, I'm sorry to say. Again, most likely depression related, but I'm trying to do what I can for them while also cutting off my ties in terms of 'parenting' him through it. That's not my job anymore, and it's a huge relief.

IF you want to salvage things, I would say to try to stop the cycle of you wanting more from him and him feeling bad for not being willing or able to give it. That is a downward spiral that will almost certainly end your marriage.

Can you shelve all the lists of jobs and requirements for a while, and throw everything into just finding ways to enjoy each other's company for a time? Intensive shake up if the status quo to reset things? Do you spend much time together doing recreational stuff as a family, so you can appreciate each other for the parents you have become? I say that because I think he needs to see and love you and want you for who you are, rather than you feeling like you need to become more 'porn' before he will notice you. Again, that's a road to nowhere, unless you have a secret wild side that you want to indulge!

Good luck, whatever you do. If you tried your best and it didn't work, you can feel secure in calling it a day

[obilisk2016]

From my experience as a client of Relate their position is to help save a relationship if possible and desired but can mediate to some degree if separation is the outcome.
The porn use may well be a result of the breakdown of sexual relations to find a channel for that energy and may not be seen by him as a betrayal - whole other subject there.
Maybe should have stated before, I am male but pretty neutral in these matters

[Milkinthepyramids]

Sorry have not had a chance to respond but I have been reading when I can and mulling things over.

I do need to give him a chance. I've been stewing for ages about his behaviour (or lack thereof) for ages but it was only on Monday that I spelled out just how unhappy it was making me and that it posed a threat to our marriage. He's not psychic, beforehand all he had was me 'nagging' him about things he didn't see as important. From what he has said he thinks I've changed hugely since having children (I have) and unfortunately he seems to have accepted that I'm gradually turning into some stereotype harridan and just sort of gradually switched off ever since. we are both in a cycle of negative behaviour and need to get out of it somehow. But he is trying and I need to play my part and try and focus on the bigger picture. Someone above mentioned a timescale and I've sort of got the summer holidays in my head, I will reassess then.

I suppose our sex life has never been entirely comfortable or natural. my sexual history involves rape as a virgin and the boyfriend prior to my husband liked the idea of him being dominant and telling me what to do (though when it came down to it would often rather just watch telly!). With my husband it was a relief to just be able to have 'normal' sex and I frequently told him so. Unfortunately I suspect this made him hesitant about bringing up some of the other things he'd like to do for fear of making me uncomfortable, and because he's not very confident himself he used slightly cack handed methods like joking about me giving him a lap dance rather than saying it was something he'd really like.as a result from about 2 years into the relationship our sex life had dwindled to no more than twice a month and each time could be described as 'pleasant' at best or quite frankly boring at worst. It picked up a bit after we got married then after DD1 I had a viscious bout of PND. Although we did resume sex about 3 months after the birth, I once said I wasn't in the mood as I thought the ADs were completely sapping my libido and he never came on to me again. I couldn't really be bothered with sex as I had enough to worry about with the PND and what on earth to do with this baby! So it wasn't until we decided we'd like another child that we started again, and since she was conceived, nothing. I had a horrible birth with dd2 so that put me off for a long time (even now it would cause issues I suspect) but despite husband complaining that we don't have a physical side to our relationship, he has not once brought up the rpossiblity of resuming our sex life. I fear he actually prefers the porn now and it feels like he didn't need much of an excuse to give up on sex with me.

Well that was far too much information but basically there's so much to sort out before I could even consider sex again I'm trying not to think about it too much. I think most important is to start trying to shelve the resentment and actually enjoy each other's company again. If anyone has any tips or experience on is this is possible I'd love to hear it!

If that does work, great we can look into reestablishing intimacy, if not, well it really might be the end. But I have to try. Thanks so much for responses, I need to talk about this somehow and it's really helping