Should I tell my friend to lower her standards

[wildmountainheather]

My friend is an attractive 30sthg. She is forever going on about how unattractive the men in her office/social circle/family friends/French class are to the point where it is a bit wearing. I understand you can't manufacture attraction but AIBU to think it isn't actually illegal to not be attractive nor can you guarantee being attractive to someone. I have introduced her casually to a couple of male friends who ok arent film stars but are worth getting to know and she was just so dismissive. One of them said he found her disdainful and she should take a look at her own attitude as it is offputting. Do you know someone like this?

I know someone like this. As well as wanting someone who is amazingly handsome with a good job and no "baggage" (as she refers to children) she is really rude to guys and then says they don't understand her sense of humour. But I think if she went for someone who she felt wasn't perfect she would feel that she is settling which wouldn't be fair on either of them.

I knew someone like this and she met her boyriend and was disdainful of him for a long time, before she spent a night with him and fell in love. I think she had always liked him, or liked other people but it was a way of pushing people away and not getting close.

Why is it your business? Maybe she doesn't actually want to be set-up or settle down and is just doing it out of social pressure. Maybe she just dates for fun?

I agree the conversation about men being unattractive sounds dull and you should find other things in common, but again why is it any of your business?

I think those who are overly invested in controlling the personal decisions women making personal decisions generally have something to prove to themselves

All these social messages saying women should "settle down" (or they're naive/slutty/arrogant/will be "left on the shelf") are woman-hating and designed to ensure men have their choice of women who are with them out of "fear" rather than being drawn to them.

The result? Unhappy marriages where women have to be drunk to have sex with their husbands, and are out every night searching for something else because they went for stability over someone they actually are drawn to and whose company they can stand and love.

I don't mean as in hold out for Brad Pitt types - that's an unpleasant and manipulative stereotype.

but women tend to know who they like and who they don't like. If they override their instincts and self-respect for "stability" or just because of social pressure, it generally ends in disaster.

Great outcome

"have introduced her casually to a couple of male friends who ok arent film stars but are worth getting to know and she was just so dismissive. One of them said he found her disdainful and she should take a look at her own attitude as it is offputting"

I don't understand this. Because she is single, she is obligated to be nice/ideally offer access to her vagina to your (critical, bitchy) male friends just to validate your own opinions?

Don't think it's a question of standards. She just sounds immature and bitchy. Wtf does it matter what colleagues or fellow students look like? It's probably need a bloke with lower standards to put up with her.

I think you could mention it in a jokey way, like 'coor, you have such high standards!' Are these men actually less attractive than her or is she just a bit up herself?

If she's happy single then I think it's a good thing that she doesn't just want anyone iyswim.

Yes I know someone like this. He must look a certain way and as she is a very successful professional she can't date below her 'level'. She's focused on all the wrong things, and she wonders why she can't find anyone good.

What feterfish said.

'As well as wanting someone who is amazingly handsome with a good job and no "baggage" (as she refers to children) '

When I was single and childfree, I wouldn't go out with men with children and considered it too much baggage. Lots of people don't want to be step parents.

I think there is nothing wrong with having high standards.

Although basing a possible relationship totally on looks is shallow- she will come to realise that in her own time.

You can't change a person's way of thinking though - so I'd just leave her to it.

Surely it's about the person rather than what they look like. Do people have deal breakers when it comes to looks? What happens if you believe you could never date a guy who was overweight but then fell for someone who was?

I was guilty of overlooking my now DP. I thought he was too nice and didn't have eniugh edge. He was a good friend to me while I was with my selfish prick of an ex. Thankfully I saw I was being an idiot.

To be fair I wouldn't want to date someone with children. I think there is a lot of 'baggage' that comes with that, for want of a better word.

I do know someone like you describe though. Anyone she dates is going to have to tick a hell of a lot of boxes and basically be perfect. I'm not going to say anything because eventually I think she'll realise that no one is perfect.

When I was single and childfree, I wouldn't go out with men with children and considered it too much baggage. Lots of people don't want to be step parents.

That's fine - I didn't until I met my boyfriend :-)

I just don't think it is nice to refer to children, or any person, as baggage.

Oh, well, guess a lot of people aren't nice then .

It's a total dealbreaker for some.

It's her problem. Don't bother introducing her to anyone.

I have high standards now, but it's mainly in terms of being treated properly. :)

SiL is like this.

She is not a catch but has some weird misplaced arrogance thing going on and thinks she's a combination of Paris Hilton and Kate Middleton.

She will only go out with a bloke if he has
a) perfect, classic good looks like a model
b) owns his own house
c) owns a car
d) is bilingual
e) is earning £X amount, I've forgotten the figure
f) has at least £40K tucked away for a wedding.

The trouble with the OP (apart from inviting others to "name and shame their female friends and coming up with a collection of stories about how if you are 32, unless you marry Desperate Dave from Accounts tomorrow you'll end up alone and eaten by crows") is that its all a bit hearsay.

What so this alleged "friend" spends ALL her time writing essays on how the men in her class are all "1 out of 10" and going out of her way to call children "baggage". It reads more like a shit goady piece from a womans mag than a genuine issue. and if the friend spends all her time criticising men then it just sounds a very dull friendship and maybe you should both make some new ones or get a hobby?

IRL, I suspect it may be more like a response to a question "so what are the guys like in your class for dating?" "oh they're not very attractive".

It isn't treating someone with "disdain" to not want to have their children and stepparent their existing ones, or have a sexual relationship with them just because they are "nice".

There is nothing wrong with having high standards or not finding many men attractive. I think that a lot of women in their 30s are much more together and take better care of themselves than men of the same age (though I may be biased as a woman in her 30s ).

If she is a good friend who you are genuinely concerned about, could you gently talk to her instead about how she may be letting nice men slip by because she is focusing too much on immediate physical attraction? Though I agree with the poster above who suggested that it may be masking other issues, such as a fear of letting people get too close or feeling vulnerable.

OP has she actually asked you for help and said the dating process is making her unhappy or are you just taking too much of an interest in her life?

Also, you claim you introduced her casually to a couple of male friends.

I'm not sure what this means.

Did she ask to be set up on a date and display an interest in them beforehand?

or did you prime them behind her back claiming she was available and would definitely like them and they just had to push things a bit.

and then engineered an awkward, embarrassing, humiliating situation for everyone where she had to awkwardly give reasons why she didn't like them?

Women have to deal with unwanted attention every day, it's pretty unpleasant having that coming from within ones own social group.

It sounds to me like you like meddling and causing drama for both your male and female friends too much

I also agree with feterfish...

If she's boring you then you're fully within your rights to move the topic of conversation on to something else.

Other than that it's really none of your business....it does sound as though you're a bit overly invested in getting her to 'settle'.

It's her life...not everyone is the same. If she asks you for your opinion then give it, if she doesn't don't give it and don't set her up with people unless she specifically asks you to (and presumably given her focus on looks she'd ask to see a picture first).

I personally don't prioritise looks so highly but if another woman wants to its not for me to try and control her to change.

YABU to tell her to lower her standards.

YANBU to ask her to stop talking about it.

What Trills said - she can go out with who she wants but you don't have to listen to unpleasant comments about looks.

Also, if you introduced her to these male friends because she encouraged you to and then she was actively rude to them, it would be fair enough to express your annoyance about that - all she had to do was be polite and say no thanks. Depends if you are really clear what happened.

Did she actually ask to be set up with your male friends? I would hate to be introduced to someone's mates where it was an obvious set up. I would probably seem 'disdainful' too, if only because I wouldn't want to encourage them if I wasn't attracted to them.

There is nothing wrong at all with having standards. Settling for a 'do for now' partner or being with someone because you don't want to be on your own is fucking grim. Leave her alone to find someone she likes in her own time

I am not so sure this is just about expectations that women should lower their standards. I often hear about, and know, men who are told the same. Also, for the same reasons, not because they should settle in any way or be with someone they don't find attractive, but because they dismiss people so quickly or have such specific criteria that they are probably missing the chance to get to know people they would really like. If they don't want a partner, fine, but many of these people complain that they do. You can also decide not to be interested in someone without sniping about them being unattractive, as if they have an obligation to be pleasing to you.

All these lists of things people must or must not have, like models looks, or a car....what about being someone you can love and connect with, even when those things aren't all present? Most of these other things are fleeting or unreliable, and if you meet someone when they are young you don't have many indications of the future, but the ultimate thing about a good relationship is surely that if you love someone you don't stop loving them because those things change. I don't know, I'm all for standards, but if you think about specific criteria too much and don't get to know people, you could miss out on the best relationship.

It's not just the children who are 'baggage', though - it's the ex, the ex-PIL, the school commitments, the contact arrangements, the complex and very tiny spot left for the new girlfriend to stand in without treading on anyone's toes... Lots of single women in their 30s have pretty nice lives, with disposable income and spare time to take French classes, etc - I met my DP at 40, and had reached a point where he did have to be something quite special to give up the independent life I had. And it annoyed me that coupled-up mates seemed to think I was so desperate to get hitched and join their married persons club that I'd be grateful to be set up on blind dates with some very random men indeed. Men that they would never have dated but seemed to think I should, because 'you can't be that picky after 40'.

But if she's whining about never meeting anyone while also whining about the ugliness of men she meets then yes, it's fair enough to forcibly change the subject.