Dare I object to my neighbours planning permission?

[billybunter4]

I have new neighbours but don't want to sour our relationship before it's even started by objecting to their planning application. They have a very quirky original portico on the front of their house that they want to demolish but we live in a conservation area & I'd prefer to see period details like this preserved. It's the sort of detail that many modern couples might consider an eyesore but I love it. What do I do? It would be horrible to create bad relations before we've even got to know each other.

People don't want them on period properties

your right they don't want them however most people don't want to spend time and money maintaining original draughty wooden sash windows either - best to replace then.

not sure I would report anyone for replacing their windows though - seems a bit extreme.

Yes, we opted for them because we didn't want to devalue the house. I'm not sure putting them in added 30k+ to the value though. Our next house was a white rendered 1930s house close to the coast. It had expensive upvc rather than cheap upvc. Wooden ones wouldn't have stood up to the elements of the coast very well I imagine.

The changes to the permitted development rules don't apply to conservation areas you still have to apply for consent. However what you have to apply for consent for varies with each conservation area as each one has different restrictions and some are stricter than others. Enforcement also varies by area. Some are very strict, others less so. I've worked in both kinds of area. Generally (not always) those with richer neighbours tend to enforce more heavily than the poorer areas that are desperate for any development. One of the LPAs round here no longer has funds for a conservation officier so when they need one they need to 'borrow' one from the adjacent authority. She's lovely, sensible but pragmatic.

That's not true, permitted development rules do apply in conservation areas.

Yseulte - not if the article 4 rights have been removed which in CAs generally some of these have been removed (which ones depend on the designation) . The changes to the PD rules did not change this they just expanded the rights in general areas (temporarily) allowing larger extensions in certain circumstances www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/responsibilities/planningpermission/permitted

That's not true, permitted development rules do apply in conservation areas

It would seem you are also unable to grasp planning regs in regards to conservation areas Yseulte despite your self proclaimed expertise!

I live in a conservation area and have to apply for planning permission for certain aspects which would be deemed permitted development elsewhere were I not in a conservation area.

Maybe you should make use of Google and hope nobody took this statement as Gospel and was mislead.

There are so many myths about wooden sash windows.

First of all they don't all let in draughts. Much of the time they still work and only the bottom bar, if anything has rotted a bit. You can replace that bit, because it's wood, and it doesn't cost much.

You can also get them renovated, including making them fit snugly, open and close without effort, and stopping any draughts with brushes - which doesn't cost nearly as much as getting them ripped out and something hideous, mass produced and modern shoved in with a load of silicon round the edges

Ours are beautiful, we live within about 300 yards of the sea, and most of them haven't rotted at all. It's really not that big of a deal.

Our UPVC window, which we didn't put in, is utterly, utterly shite. It moves when you pull or push it. It's ugly. It just isn't part of the house, like the wooden ones are.

It's like putting a Picasso painting in a big plastic frame.

It's also really difficult to open and shut, and sticks all the time.

I'm having it replaced with a proper wooden one as soon as I can afford to.

Well Pippa, ours were not only draughty but the front bay one was badly warped due to a nasty heater that had been sat underneath since the 70s. Others had been painted shut repeatedly over the last 30-40yrs. They were rotting due to neglect. We replaced them with timber framed double glazed units to replica the originals and they were lovely but very expensive. I'm not sure people's priority should be making sure they have nice windows. If your old sash ones are in a mess and leaking it's ridiculous to suggest you should put up with them unless you can afford what we did. Upvc had come on massively in the last 10yrs and whilst our new timber windows were undoubtedly beautiful and helped sell the house, I'm not sure it's the best option for everyone. Private individuals do not have a duty to protect the perceived asthetics of Victorian and Edwardian buildings. Otherwise they'd all be listed.

Also it was fine for us as we were selling a 500k house. If your Victorian terrace is worth 60k it's ridiculous to suggest anything other than something warm and cheap.

I understand your point, but if you look at my post you can see that I recommended getting the existing windows, which usually are not all that bad (though yours sound sadly past it) restored or renovated, which is usually FAR cheaper than having replacement UPVC ones.

We're talking at cross purposes: my point was that permitted development is allowed in conservation areas. The implication of the post I replied to was that PD rules did not apply to conservation areas full stop.

The specific allowances depend on the area and the buildings in question. - different rules apply to grade 2 listings & above, world heritage sites, national parks etc.

To take my conservation area as an example: you can build a rear extension up to 4m in depth, roof height of 3m (parapets up to 3.5m) without planning permission. For 4m - 8m in depth you need neighbour consultation. For a higher roof or greater depth you need pp. You can also erect outbuildings -garden rooms, home offices, garages, without pp, (with comparable height and width restrictions).

I believe there should be much tighter PD rules in conservation areas generally.

We bought an investment house in a cheap part of Manchester. We payed less than 50k for it. It needed new windows. Old upvc were damaged. We got the whole house done for about 2k. Cheap and easy.
I can see your point too and they do look so much better. But restoration can be costly or at least open ended and time consuming. Many people have a very small set budget and just want to be warm so don't care too much about the period features of their house. It's why so many beautiful fireplaces were boarded up or taken away in the 70s and 80s.

Our house had all its original sashes ripped out and replaced with aluminium in the 1980s and the front door swapped for UPVC

We're saving our pennies for new wooden sashes, nothing else looks as good and higher end UPVC is no cheaper than hardwood. In our previous house we had the 140 year old sashes refurbed for about 200 pounds per window, they were draft proofed and ran smoothly and kept more heat in than the aluminium even though it's double glazed.

The brickwork is painted a charming maroon as well..

You could get someone else to complain (on your behalf)

Yes, aluminium is cold and horrible. IME it is always draughty even when new.

In my conservation area you would never get permission for that. Where are you OP?

In answer to OP, I would object strongly, especially in a conservation area. They have no right to ruin the streetscape and you and other neighbours have every right to make your views known.
We did work on our house last year (replaced a 1970s extension that was falling down) and our neighbours were a total pain (complained about the plans even though we could have done the work under permitted development, deliberately stalled the party wall process, said one thing to our faces then another to planning officer etc) but it was their right to express an opinion.

I think it's nothing to do with you and that your neighbours porch isn't there for your enjoyment!

It's everyone's concern if period features are being ripped out in a conservation area. It concerns our cultural heritage and people who own these buildings have a responsibility to them. I think the OP said its a glass portico, That's rather different from a bland old porch used for dumping shoes.

Everyone's porch is used for dumping shoes, surely?

I would be interested to see what the portico looks like. Is it one of the Edwardian gob ons? IME these things were not very well constructed. OP might like the look of it but it is the neighbour who will be having to live with the dry rot/wood worm.

There was an enormous amount of building during the late 19th/early 20th century. An awful lot of it was decorative but not of good quality.

Myredcardigan - ours isn't, outer porch is well outside and full of giant pine cones, inner porch is empty except for those charity bags which seem to come through the door every day.
Shoes are put away nicely dumped by the back door in the utility room.

A 'quirky glass portico' in a conservation area suggests to me that it's an open glass and iron construction shielding the door, not necessarily an enclosed space.