WWYD? {potentially very triggering, & very long regardless}

[lindyf]

This is all going to sound very, very “A Child Called It”//dramatic because several horrible things happened to me at once. My life has been largely uneventful apart from these couple of things, though!

My mum died when I was 8. After that, my grandparents abused me. Happened when I was staying with them. It only happened a few times and I told my dad almost straightaway. Thankfully he believed me. Less thankfully, it was because…well, because it happened to him, too, when he was younger, practically all his childhood. They’d never had a good relationship in my memory – we moved away from where they lived and though they kept up sporadic contact, I hardly ever saw them. I’ve visited the Stately Homes thread and, although it didn’t happen to me, most of that sounds familiar, the mind games they used to play on him etc.

I probably would be dead or supremely messed up now if not for him. Seriously. Like if he’d made a thread here about me back when I was in my terrible teens, everyone would’ve been saying I was the most abusive Satan child who ever lived and needed to leave/be exorcised. I stole (a lot) from him, I lied to him (a lot), I once kicked him down a flight of stairs (and no I’m still not sure how I bloody did it). I used to throw stuff at the walls, trashed our house every other day, picked so many fights…Somehow I never ended up getting seriously injured – I mean, again – or hooked on drugs or anything, and I think it was probably thanks to his patience & compassion etc.
I mean obviously it was the ramifications of what had happened to me coming out but given it happened to him too…he was just a great dad.

The part I’ve left out? When I was younger, he told me not to tell anyone about the abuse. It always kind of made sense to me but now it particularly makes sense to me – he was a single dad {well he always has been since my DM died but you know what I mean}, pretty young when he had me, said he always felt paralysed with guilt, didn’t know what to do, afraid of losing custody of me, knew we could move and we did. He has a good job and he’s also financially supported me for most of my life. {I have a strong suspicion they brainwashed him to be terrified of “official channels” for pretty obvious
reasons but he never told me that.}

Fast forward to the present day. I’m pg!! YAY! I’m going to have a baby. I can’t wait, I’ve wanted to have children so badly since almost forever. Nobody knows what happened to me, nobody does except my DF & a couple of counsellors. They didn’t know the big detail about my DF, though, just told them he didn’t know.

Well – until I told my best friend. I told her everything. I don’t know, I guess I just felt like somebody else should ‘know’, pregnancy hormones & whatnot.
She freaked out & told me I couldn’t let my DF babysit my soon-to-be DS/DD. She basically said he was a danger to children. Obviously I didn’t take that well at all and we ended up having a huge row. She said a good father would never do something like that and that I’d been screwed up from what had happened, so I couldn’t function normally.

I don’t know. I don’t even know where the right place would be to post this. I know how dramatic this sounds, btw. We’re best friends and I know she wouldn’t tell anybody else. It also sounds stupidly limp to say AIBU. So…WWYD?

Judging him for not being as brave and assertive and unimpaired from his childhood as you were.

So why make the remark then, if you know I haven't namechanged? Seems a bit petty & goady to me.

And I don't judge him for not being brave, I judge him for not protecting her & subjecting another child to abuse, when he could have prevented it. And then telling her to keep it a secret, making sure she had NO ONE to confide in, because she would have wanted to keep her father happy! He prevented her from getting help for a long time.

I'm not beating anyone. I am sick of generation upon generation of being subjected to abuse because it has to be "kept a secret" or because "it was different then"

And I wasn't the last generation in my family to be abused. One of my relations didn't deal with it & went on to abuse his children. So I know the damage that "keeping secrets" does.

I think your dad may have asked you to keep it a secret because he was terrified of losing his job if it became known that he had been abused.

16 years ago, I was hounded out of a job because I was tricked into revealing to someone that I had been abused. The employer in question had an award for the best anti-bullying policies in the UK.

My line manager judged me to be worthless, and psychologically unbalanced because I had sought counselling for post-traumatic stress disorder.

He wrote on my annual appraisal that I was mentally-unbalanced and unstable.
Outright flatly refused to believe me when I said I was pregnant.
Asked me in an open office with up to 8 other people listening if I'd like to go and do 6 months work in the USSR when he knew I was pregnant, so depriving me of maternity care
Insisted on my working 200 miles away between 30-32 weeks knowing I was born at 32 weeks
Finally, he left before my maternity leave, and forced me to sign a file note for my personnel file saying that it was only because I was unemployable due to pregnancy that I'd been allowed to stay in the team and that there was no reason whatsoever to have me back on return. I had no choice but to sign.

He was a Chartered Accountant, and if he'd had a chip on each shoulder he might have been a well-balanced human being. But I doubt it.

I can fully understand your df being shit-scared of anyone where he worked finding out that he'd been abused. It cost me my career.

Oh god, tb, that's awful. I always thought he asked me because of a combination of things -- mostly I think he felt horribly guilty & was afraid of the "you knew & did nothing" & I think he was afraid of being reported, & everything that comes with it? I don't know, like I said, I think he's always been afraid of me going into foster care or something, but maybe I'm just being self-absorbed. I feel like I would've been (even more) fucked up had he just reported it because then I would've just been abandoned in the system. But, the fact is, if he knew something happened to my DC, I would want the whole world to know it. I think I can reconcile those two things, but should I?

As much as I really, really, really appreciate the emotional support, I did ask because I wanted opinions. I will bear your username in mind, Please don't fight because of me, I would hate that! I know it's a sensitive subject so I hope it doesn't sound crass. I will bear your username in mind, stopfuckingshouting.

I feel sure that my DF would never do anything to physically harm my DC at all. But with my background...I just know that my child has to be safe above anything. The thing is, I know my DF did the best he could (emphasis on that part perhaps...), & did take really good care of me, at a time when I feel the vast majority of parents would've just despaired & given up. But I also know that my best friend has my (soon-to-be) DC's welfare at heart, too, & with seeing how badly my GPs' "parenting" messed up my DF (& obviously they were "respected members of the community", you would never know it, etc. etc.) I know that it can be so hard to escape from sometimes. I want to believe that she's just overreacting, but I know she wouldn't overreact without at least a reason.

I'm sorry if this is just a garbled non-message. for everyone.

I agree with a PP who said its not that your df would harm your child but the risk is he could fail to protect them.

I was abused as a child and recently found out my older sisters knew what had happened and did and said nothing for 20 years. I will no longer trust them with my dc, they used to have regular sleepovers with them.

It's an awful situation Lindy but personally I think your friend has a point.

Hey Lindy - if nothing else you have had some feedback and indeed the thoughts of people who have experienced this are so valuable

What do you feel like doing , if anything ? Is the situation with your friend worrying you or can you leave it and have a think . It looks like if nothing else she has your best experience at heart

You can always revisit this thread

Wishing you the very very best

I also agree that it's not about whether your father would physically harm your children, rather he has proved himself incapable of protecting a child.

In your shoes op I would be very cautious about leaving your DC with him.

Awful as it is, what I want most is just for it not to have happened. Which is never happening. I know that is so whiny. I want to trust my dad because, like I said, he's been such a support to me all my life. I guess I should broach it with him but I don't know how. Argh, feeling kind of sick.

I think your friend gave you really bad advice. Your DF is not a danger to your DCs, he has never abused anyone and there is no reason to think he would start now. As for not protecting you, that is also incorrect; he believed you, he went NC with his parents and moved you away. Could he have done more? Yes, he could have gone to the authorities and pursued this through formal channels. Is it understandable that he didn't do more? Very much so, given his history of abuse in the hands of the same people and his fears as a sole parent. Should he have done more? I am not sure, we all do the best we can under limiting circumstances but it's for you to judge your DF if you see fit and not your friend.

The past of course is complicated and i'm sorry you had to go through it, but your father did protect you after you disclosed to him and always cared for you well when in his care. He should never have left you with your Grandparents and in that respect his judgement was seriously flawed, but as far as your own DC are concerned could it be as simple as sitting him down and explaining that you trust him to look after them, but would never want them leaving with anyone else, even for a moment, if he agrees and you trust him to follow your wishes I can't see a problem.

As far as the massive mistake he made of leaving you with your Grandparents on top of genuinely wishing his own abuse had never happened and wishing it away could it be that he genuinely felt that you were safe because you were a girl? When I was growing up it did seem that many people genuinely believed that a person could be a risk to just one sex and sometimes (rarely) they were right (to a degree). My ex was physically and mentally abused by his "respectable" dad, his sisters were "safe", except of course they were also psychologically damaged.

Why didn't he go to the police, who knows, it could be any of the reasons you've thought of. Or that he did tell someone himself as a child and people believed his "respectable" parents and not him and he didn't want you to go through that or????? If you really need to know he's the only one with the answers...

We all make mistakes and your Dad did what he thought was best. How old are you? Times have changed. A lot of things that went on in the 70s and 80s wouldn't be acceptable now. All that Jimmy Saville stuff wouldn't be tolerated now.

Your Dad suffered when he was younger and when you were growing up too by the sound of it. We all have our demons but you need to put them to bed. Your Dad didn't abuse you and I very much doubt he would abuse your baby. He knew what his parents did was wrong.

I'm very careful what I reveal about myself to people these days. Unfortunately, people do judge and when you're looking for support you can get the complete opposite.

If you really need to know he's the only one with the answers...

I know. The thing is, I don't really want to bring it up with him, I don't want to have to remind him of everything, you know? He hasn't told me very much at all in terms of factual detail, though I absolutely think there's some truth in him trying to report it. But it's all just speculation & it seemed like any way I went was a landmine.

I was mostly just wondering what other people's thoughts were on this situation because I don't know if there's any "right" way to handle it. I probably will just bite the bullet and talk to him. (which I'm still putting off) I just can't think of how to put it into words.

As for all the age thing, I hope you don't mind me not going into major details because all of this is quite graphic life-wise, but I'm mid-20's.

What matters here is what YOU want, op. If you want details from your father, you have a right to ask.

If he blocks you, or doesn't want to talk about it, then you have to take from that what you will.

If you need to know details before you can properly trust him, that's your parental instincts & protection coming to the fore.

The thing is, is your need for information more important than his need not to be reminded? Can you live your life not knowing the answers?

I would agree with your friend I'm afraid, that your DF is not well placed to protect your child from abuse. It's a difficult situation, and probably very sad for you to have to think about. You've had some therapy - has your DF? It sounds like he is still quite traumatised.

I never understand why posters need to age people negatively re 'you sound quite young'. Maybe it's this idea that with age comes wisdom. HAHAHA

Mmm, I fortunately have never been in this situation, but your df sounds lovely and yes, he made a mistake leaving you with his parents, but apart from everything else he was recently bereaved, someone who had been abused by his parents, so understandably not thinking straight.

I just identified with the difficult teenage daughter and that fact that he is in no way abusive himself, it would be a terrible shame to deprive such a man of his grandchild.

It's often the case that abused children blame themselves, believing that they are in some deserving of whatever cruelty is being inflicted on them.

If this is the case with your df, it's probable he thought that his dps cruelty was confined solely to him and that as you were so obviously not deserving of abuse he may have erroneously assumed that his dps would not harm you.

As soon as you told him about the abuse he took steps to protect you by moving well away from his dps and, most probably, he didn't want you to dislose the abuse to anyone else as his childhood experiences had led him to believe that they were all-powerful and he may have feared that they would gain custody of you if he challenged them. The sad fact is that numerous apparently god-fearing and upright citizens who are also child abusers have come out best in custody disputes.

From the way you've described him, it seems to me that your df is your best friend and you have no need for gfs who rush to pass judgement on matters of which they have limited knowledge and even less experience.

OK - so having had really horrible, prolonged abuse himself, your Dad grew up and managed to score about a 5 so to speak, didn't he? He didn't manage you to protect you your grandparents - that's easily the worst failing, as he shouldn't have let you anywhere near them.

However, from you say here, what a hand to be dealt - a childhood full of abuse followed by your wife dying when your child is 8, leaving you with the paranoia of your child being taken away that single fathers experience.

In that regard, it is impressive that he got himself together to be a good parent on his own territory and didn't absorb your grandparents' behaviour when it came to his treatment of you.

I can see why you might want certain boundaries around your future child's relationship with your Dad if you are worried that when push comes to shove he might not have the strength to keep your child away from particular dangerous situations. I don't see on first reading see why you wouldn't let him see your child - maybe it'll be about a fun together role though.

However, talking this through with a therapist with experience in this area sound absolutely the right thing to do. It may help you to prepare for particular feelings you may have when you have this child.

I think your story is troubling and difficult to comprehend so your friend has reacted strongly. What shines through to me is the love your dad has for you and will have for your baby.
I do not feel qualified to give you solutions or advice, except to strongly urge you to seek specialist support and advice from those who know how to deal.with abuse from you past. I know from personal experience that when you are expecting a child , have a baby issues from your own childhood become very difficult.
Speak to your father when you have found solutions or at least understand a little more. He won't necessarily have any answers as he has also been a victim like you .
Good luck and enjoy your pregnancy as much as you can and I would say share the joy with your dad .

You and your dad are not victims you are survivors

I'm sorry to resuscitate my dead thread, but i realised i never said thank you to the most recent posters. I know it's very bad to reopen any thread of almost a month. Also, I have been figuring some stuff out, but it's not really enough new stuff to open a new thread. I hope you don't mind, MN, your support has been so wonderful. It took me quite a long time to figure out how to vocalise this stuff. Sorry.

Pannacott, no my dad hasn't had therapy. I've tried to persuade him that it at least might help, but I think he's afraid of what memories it'll dredge up, & for a long time he seemed pretty focused on trying to raise me. So I feel like he almost hasn't had time for himself? If that makes sense. Christ, I sound like hard work because I was.

For those of you who say not to leave him alone, what do you think I should tell my DP? I hadn't really thought of this before but...it's complicated. Argh. I've basically never told him anything.

My therapist thinks I should just tell him (my partner) everything. And while I would agree with differentnameforthis, I do think, horrible as it might sound, my right to know does supersede a lot of things -- but it's different because I know what it was like. I've been there to an extent. I worry about what to tell him - my instinct makes me feel that I don't have to tell my partner anything. I just wondered if anybody had any thoughts on this. (why is it always easier to talk to complete strangers? /angst)

You don't have to tell your partner.

However, consider how you would feel if the father of your children had experienced the same things you have, similarly been let down (in terms of preventing the abuse) by his parent, not told you about it, and let your child have unsupervised contact with that parent.

Your past is your own, but your child will also be your DP's child, and that means he has a right to know anything that might impact on that child's safety.

The problem is that safeguarding children doesn't just mean not abusing them. It means protecting them from being abused. Your father failed to do this. That's a fact, not a judgement.

We might say that we can completely understand why he isn't able to protect children in his career from abuse. We might understand why he makes poor decisions about how to deal with disclosures of abuse. But none of that makes him able to protect children from being abused.

In the light of that I think unsupervised contact would be very foolish. And if I were your partner and I thought you had kept this from me and made that decision unilaterally that would be the end of our partnership. So you don't have to tell but I don't think you can let him look after your children if you don't.

Sorry this happened to you op.

In his care. Not career!