I'm not materialistic but....

[ticktockicktock]

couldn't he get me one nice, thoughtful gift for xmas!

Have been mulling about posting for fear of sounding ungrateful,materialistic or frankly hearing that my dp is a tight arse or just doesn't care.

I have been with him for 5 years now. we don't live together due to our careers (he's a farmer) and I have worked my way up in my career to be able to afford a life for myself and dd (not his). While this works for me in a sense as my priorities became dd's education, my elderly parents and being self sufficient, there are times I wish we could be under the same roof and possibly married. I am conflicted at times about this as sometimes I feel what if i had to go through a separation with finances/heartache etc. so for the majority of the time I just enjoy our relationship. once a week I see him. He is not great at showing his affections but says I am the woman for him and has never been happier. I am everything he'd want in a woman. So, my problem is:

For birthdays and christmas I have always made a point of getting something throughful,useful and personal. I do this with everyone. Monetary value isn't important to me, 50p v £50.I rarely spend money on myself as I can't justify or I will find soemthing for dd or him that I would prefer to use it on. He is frugal with money. Lost a considerable amount years ago in a separation and has made him wary of spending on unnecessary items. Puts alot of value now on bargains/saving. I get this, but when it comes to gifts he also finds it difficult to purchase without it having a purpose to it.
For my birthdays I will usually be given a selection of items by email and told to pick. Fine it's practical and I won't be disappointed. Valentines is not considered a gift purchasing occasion. I let that go.

So my question is. If you were given a box of chocolates for Christmas would you re-evaluate your relationship. It sounds crazy I know, but to me this is what you might give a neighbour for minding your cat while you away/ or sick in a hospital bed/ or your child's teacher at xmas.

I hate that I am deciding my relationship on this but it's a fundamental flaw in someone that can't see how insulting this is when they have been given such thoughtful gifts. I don't know what to do here. I have discussed this with him before, sarcastically when i received a replacement gutter for my house as i was in need of it as my xmas gift.!!!
Help please, am I being unreasonable after 5 years.

he's wary of marriage, he has many friends who married and lost the farm and land and left with nothing. In the farming community this is a big deal.however he knows i have always had my own money, would support him and have done emotionally also. So I am true to my word and he knows this but obviously it's a worry for him.
I have told him there is a part of me that would love to be with him under one roof in the future. He will joke around and sometimes he will tell me I'd make the most wonderful/loving caring wife. He does get frustrated that I'm not nearer but he also has his little ways where he has been independant and worries he wouldn't be 'allowed' to be that way if tied down. I have told him how ridiculous this is. I support his hobbies and interests and enjoy my 'own' time too.

We have looked at houses out of interest last year, but know that he would never want to move out of family farm. An elderly relative is living on the land and does make herself welcome to the family home. He feels responsible for elderly relative.
so there are so many obstacles that we just end up enjoying our time together rather than stressing with what should we do in 3/6 years time.
I suspect both of us are just waiting and when it becomes time we'll know.
stupid I know and it frustrates me. Generally we'll both discuss and plan together. So at the moment it's stagnant and neither rocking the boat.
Really lost now and not sure what to do. I want commitment, butknow at the moment with him/us it's not an option. So frustrating.
maybe lovely thoughtful gifts, being more open without having to be encouraged to share feelings(he admits he's terrible at it) would make me feel more content.

I think he's a (albeit nice)commitment phobe and that what you have is likely what you'll have in the future unless you insisted on moving in with him at a later date and who wants to feel like they're only living with someone because they forced it to happen?

Also no amount of telling him how ridiculous his fears of commitment are is going to reassure him, he sounds fully baked in that area...

I agree somewhat with you threefishys. but he had mad attitudes towards things before i met him. I have opened his eyes and madehim be less black and white and he likes that I have. But I do agree there are some things you just can't do and wouldn't want them done, to keep the peace or out of duty.
can lead a horse....

bah humbug... just the thought of starting a conversation with... ok well its like this,, I love you, you're my best friend, I want to be with you but I can't because your present buying has got brutal and oh yeh you'll never marry me 'cos you're a commitment phobe.
cue tears
cue him saying please dont do this
cue me saying i don't want to
cue him saying then don't, i don't want to loose you
cue me saying then things have to change, we have to plan a future
cue him saying but what we have is what we both want and the future will happen when we're ready
cue me saying that makes perfect sense in reality, ok!

But it isn't what you both want...or you wouldn't be on the relationships board . Planning a future and taking actual steps towards it is surely a natural part of being in a progressive relationship .my ex (the rubbish present buying one) is a terrible comitmemt phobe. I've known him 20 years since I went out with him the first time for a few months. Spent 4 years with him this time convincing mainly myself but to some extent him that he'd evolved somewhat ....he hadn't. I don't think yours will either despite how he's come on in the FIVE YEARS you've been seeing each other. FIVE YEARS of your life OP. You know what I'm saying .

Your whole attitude to gifts is quite PA with a generous splash of martyrdom. Essentially, you want him to be you (in the gift giving sense) and he obviously isn't. The background information that you provided about your parents and mother speaks volumes. Gift giving isn't an accurate barometer of emotional attachment and if you're using it as such, suggests that you aren't confident about how much your partner really values you.

Looking at houses when you know he is v. unlikely to move out of the farm, what's that all about? I get the impression the fantasy of your future relationship, really won't match up to reality and you both are aware of this but it's the fantasy of this shared future that keeps you together.

Either accept the limitations of your current relationship or make a conscious effort to change them, which will mean a greater investment and or sacrifice from both of you.

doesn't everyone in a relationship have a fantasy of how they WANT it to turn out. In reality it's not always that simple and doesn't always go that way. Yes I agree with you Isetan that this has tocome to a head, I'm reluctant to throw it all away and that's what I'm struggling with.

Farmers won't ever leave the family farm as such. Unless I was to move in. I'm not sure I'd want that and the reason we went looking was that he was going to invest in a house and I would consider that my first step. He would live with me but have the family farm to go to. Many of his friends have family farms that they go to and never sell and leave as it is, it's a workplace and a place that holds memories. I never quite understood this until i met him and similar. His siblings don't want the farm sold so he wants to continue working it. It isn't somewhere I'd like to move my toothbrush into. Maybe because I am more independant that some women and feel i'd like a neautral place to live.

My initial questions was if gift giving shows a lack of care/thought etc.He does love me but he is obviously selfish/tight and I am comparing myself to him because i don't think that way. But we think the same in many other ways and that's why I'm confused. We do learn alot from our parents and my mother as you comment on was the most giving woman ever. She had a very close friend for 35 years. They knew each other so well, one year at xmas the friend arrived with a present as they always did. my mother had put thought into her friends. Alot of effort as they both did in recognising and symbolising how much they meant to each other. Her friend produced a knitted hat of vile colours (even we said so) which was not my mothers taste,style.
Not only did my mother question it but we all did. she knew my mother hadn't worn a knitted hat in all the 35 years she knew her. So yes there is almost a motivation or insult when you give something to someone that just doesn't represent anything. I am not sure about it representing a love barometer but it represents a lack of something!!

OP, correct me if I'm wrong but from your syntax and vocab you sound Irish. I'm from an Irish agricultural background and I can guarantee you the following (apologies in advance for the generalisation);

• Irish farmers are the most tight-fisted people on the planet. A good friend of mine is an agricultural adviser and says half his time is taken up with farmers arguing with him about money. Another guy I know, an accountant, refuses point blank to take on farmers as clients because they're just too much hassle, again arguing with him about money. Irish farmers are also the least sentimental and romantic people you will ever meet. These guys have spent their lives pulling bloodied and mucus-covered calves out of cows' nether regions in the middle of the night, or castrating bulls in shitty paddocks. I'm sorry, but these guys simply don't do pandora trinkets or spa vouchers.

Very keen eye Irishdad.! Your post did make me laugh at your descriptions, altough i'm sure there are a few who break the mould, i tend to agree.

OP, doing the 5 Love Languages test with him might be an eye opener. (Click on the "Discover your love language" link to begin the test. If you don't want to give them your email address, there's a PDF you can download and do manually instead here.

I am like you in that I'm a gift giver and I tend to gauge how people feel about me by the quality of gift received. If I get a shit gift, I think that the person doesn't value me. However it might be that they're not into gifts, but express their love through words, or doing me favours, instead. To them, that is just as meaningful. And maybe when I give them a big carefully-chosen gift, but never say "I love you", they think "Oh she thinks she can treat me like shit all year [e.g. not say ILU) and then buy me off with a gift."

I was in a similar relationship for eight years! It never moved on from what it was. I truly never felt more confused. I think I was someone pleasant enough to spend time with and have sex with. I always thought it was more than that but it really wasn't when push came to shove.

I think your instinct is telling you something. Two people who really want to be together will make it happen. I wish I had listened to my instinct.

pocket - i'll go to that now. never heard of it and willing to try a new tactic before i down tools. And I see your point on the gift giving explanation.

all - sorry to hear that. 8 years is a phenomenally long time to invest and hope. How are you now? And did it effect how you went into your next relatonship?

I knew you were in Ireland too! My friend was in a similar position, she randomly met a farmer from Galway who had possession of the family farm, complete with a mad uncle in a caravan, and a couple of ramshackle houses and 8 siblings who all thought they could stick their finger in. After negotiations that would have put the UN to shame, they agreed to build a new house on the farm and leave the old one for the siblings to use when they visited. It took an age to get sorted but they managed it, and it was THEIR project, not something overshadowed by the rest of their families.

DH and I write lists for each other a few weeks before Christmas with exactly what we want each other to buy with a few different choices at varying prices. Ok, I know it takes away the element of surprise and romance but it stops the disappointing gifts. Could you do something similar, Op?

I would suggest reading wifework - it offers an alternative way of looking at this kind of thing - in terms of what's called "emotional labour" or "emotional work". Women tend to do almost all of the emotional labour in relationships and balance is incredibly rare. It may give you some new vocabulary which might make the problem easier to discuss with your DP if you do want to try going down that road again. Essentially the argument is that this is an issue of gender equality and men that don't put in the effort aren't really any different to men who would expect you to do all the cleaning if you lived together.

I'm not 100% sure I see things this way myself; I've just read the book and am still thinking everything through. It's true that almost all of the relationships I've personally ended have been due to a lack of emotional labour on the part of the man (although I didn't have the vocabulary to put it so succinctly until now) but poor present giving has never been on my radar as an issue. Probably because I'm not a great gift giver myself (although I consider myself to be good at showing people I appreciate them in other ways). This is mainly because I don't get a huge amount of "payoff" from other peoples' gifts. For me, if there's something I really like, I just buy myself it. If I don't have something it usually means I don't want it or else it's just not on my radar at all. The chances of someone being aware of something I'd absolutely love that I don't know about already are pretty slim, no matter how well they know me. If someone has put a lot of thought into a gift I make sure I act appreciatively but to be honest, I wouldn't feel in any way offended if they'd got me nothing or something less thoughtful provided they were a good friend in other ways (which all my friends are). I suppose I take the view that if everything else is right (ie they are a good friend in every other way) then a good present is irrelevant. If other things aren't right a present will never be enough to make up for those.