ODD and ADHD - honesty the best policy?

[OldFarticus]

I have a good friend with a son aged 10. He was diagnosed with ODD and ADHD several years ago. It's fair to say my friend's life (and that of her kids) has been fairly chaotic. She has an older son with whom she is NC. She split from their father before I met her and has been having a lengthy affair with a married man which ended about 6 months ago. Neither of us live in the UK at the moment, but I am planning to move back shortly.

My friend (let's call her Deb) recently had a whirlwind romance with a guy originally from the UK and they are getting married next month and will also be moving to the UK. They are likely to live within 1 hour of DH and me.

This will sound awful but I want to end this friendship because of Deb's son's behaviour. I know he has SN (and I deliberately did not put this in AIBU - I know I am), but although I feel very sorry for Deb and him, I cannot stand being around this child. Some recent examples of his behaviour:

• at the beach, he runs up to me and wobbles my belly fat and makes "blubber" noises. Is told off. Ignores and carries on.

• says "when I get older I want a wife who isn't fat like her" . (I am size 12 - not skinny but hardly whale-like either).

• I offer to buy him an ice cream. He demands something pricey from the adult menu of a nearby restaurant. Is told to behave by Deb. Has full tantrum ("But SHE is paying! So who cares?")

• tells me how much nicer his mum's engagement ring is compared to mine. I agree it is very beautiful. Deb (embarrassed) comments that mine is 2 carats and hers is only 1 and I say yes but size doesn't matter. Has full tantrum because I am "bragging".

Reading that back it sounds as though he hates me which might be the case. I have only gone nuts at him once - walking along the beach, he picked up a sharp stick and deliberately speared a sea urchin with it. ("They're disgusting anyway!")

I am increasingly disturbed by his behaviour and - to be frank - I just don't want to be around either of them any more. I have tried to help but Deb lets so much of his behaviour go past without comment, probably because it is so extreme and difficult to manage. However, I also feel that she sets a really bad example sometimes. They have had numerous pets all of whom have ended up rehomed - a German Shepherd that got "too big", a cat that peed on the floor once and was then locked in a 2 foot cupboard 24/7 (and now lives with me ). Deb's son has already been thrown out of numerous schools and suspended more times than I can remember. Usually the punishment is for violence.

Although I care about Deb, I really want to distance myself. Although it's cowardly I am increasingly just ignoring her calls and cancelling plans to meet, because I can't cope with her kid. (She wanted to bring him to my apartment for a sleepover at the weekend and I made excuses). I think it would be more honest to explain why I can't be around her at the moment and/or offer to see her without her son. DH thinks this is what I should do. However, given Deb's son's diagnosis, I think it is unlikely to make much difference and it might make them both feel worse. He has no friends at school (and usually gets kicked out before making any) and I suspect it won't help if he knows Deb's friends hate him too.

Any wise words or suggestions? Should I take the coward's way out or tell her her kid's a horror? Or just make other excuses?

It really isn't that I don't want to be supportive - I suppose I am starting to question the point at which it is reasonable for me to say "no more" when it comes to accepting her son's behaviour and the impact it has on me. I don't dispute that it's not entirely his fault (tricky parental situation, poor parenting and/or SN all playing a role) and would prefer not to upset my friend, but the honest truth is that I am increasingly uncomfortable around him. He has form for punching a woman (his teacher) in the face. If a child is like that at 10, I genuinely fear what the teenage years and adulthood will brinig.

There is just no way getting around this. You can't tell you friend the truth without it effectively ending the friendship. And also you don't have to accept anything that makes you feel unhappy, regardless of what's the reason. If it is unpleasant to you then it's unpleasant. I would just distance yourself and let it cool off with time.

but I really struggle to understand how an otherwise bright 10 year old can display so little empathy towards others.

This is what is ASD is . You cant fix it.

You have hang on inthere as you have dealt with ASD and your freind and child did not feel sof different . Now child has got bigger it now a huge problem in your eyes .

As other and your self have said your freind is use losing friends over her son . So tell the truth and move on.

I have lost friends because they can't handle how my aspie son behaviour and how I chose to manage their behaviour. At the time I was sad, but i was glad in the long run as no-one needs someone who is criticising them behind their back. The friends that I lost have missed seeing the transformation that has occurred recently due to finally finding the right way to access and support ds.

Either you find some sort of inner peace with the situation or you say your piece and move. Tbh it already sounds like you have made the decision but are just too chicken. Honest or not - stop contact, it will be better for everyone in the long run.

Summer he does not have ASD. He has a spurious diagnosis of ADHD (and I say spurious because there are not many decent psychiatrists where we live) and has been labelled as ODD by the school where he punched a teacher, pushed his teaching assistant over and handed out racist and homophobic insults like sweets. Poor diddums.

Only on MN would a desire not to be physically attacked or verbally abused by a child result in a poster getting torn a new one.

I don't think you're a bad person for not wanting to be around a child like that. It's difficult, but ultimately you are being verbally abused by a child and you don't have to be.
Does Deb get the appropriate support her and her son need? Is he under CAMHS (or equivalent), medicated, behavioural support? There is a lot of things that can be done to help improve his behaviour and hopefully the mother is doing all of it. If she isn't, maybe you could help her sort all of that stuff out?
Do you really want to throw the friendship away? If not, perhaps a frank discussion about her sons behaviour and it's impact, not on you, but on him. Because whatever he has said to you, his mother will have had it a million times worse. She will know how difficult he is. Maybe she needs someone there saying, "ok, this is all a bit shit. He is getting very difficult to manage, what can we do to help?"
No point sugar coating it. At least then you know you have tried. If she doesn't want help and you don't want to be around her child then not much else can be done.

There are children who are diagnosed with ODD when it's a parenting/behavioural issue. This child doesn't even have a diagnosis of ODD so not sure why you mentioned it.
To me this child sounds deeply damaged by a flaky, emotionally absent mother who can't do boundaries and takes no responsibility for her actions, leaving a trail of abandoned children and animals in her wake. Yes the child sounds very difficult to be around but it's the friend you should be focusing on not the child.

Thanks Mrs. There is very little help available here and I am glad she is moving back to the UK because the support will hopefully be better. Saying that, I hear CAHMS can be mixed and tbh I feel a bit sorry for the other kids who will be in his class. I suspect he will struggle to stay in mainsteam education but I am out of the loop so I don't know what the other options are.

All medicine is private here and MH is rarely covered by insurance. Help is available but it has to be paid for. Deb could afford to get him this support until recently (and has been advised by a psych to get that support in place before puberty, which may well exacerbate his behaviour). My friend has not done so to date although she has taken this kid on about 12 foreign holidays in that time! He is very spoilt, which doesn't help.

I think writing this down and reading my posts back I am starting to see that my friend is a big part of the problem. She has no family and is estranged from her own mother because (according to my friend) her DM also cannot bear to be around her DS.

HI Obsis - yes sorry it's a bit of a drip feed. The ADHD was properly diagnosed during a MH assessment instigated by my friend. The ODD was the opinion of the school psychologist, so not a formal diagnosis iyswim? The psychologist advised getting him assessed for ODD, which my friend has not done formally, but from the (very little) I know about ODD it sounds very like him/his behaviour. However, Deb does not think the school psych is qualified to make that diagnosis and is "labelling" him as an excuse to get rid of him. (I know, denial...)

If her son does indeed have SN then she cannot afford to be 'flaky'. Yes, CAMHS can be hit and miss but she needs to fight for the help. My DS has asd, adhd, spd, dcd and hypermobile joints. So I am slightly experienced in the subject (although every child is different.) The only way he has got any help is because I have fought for him. Your friend sounds like she definitely needs the extra support and as nice as it is to be able to take your children on holidays etc, her priority should be to spend the money on actually helping him grow into a functional member of society. Which he has the ability to, he just needs the extra help to get there.

I really have tried to help Mrs and will continue to do so if I can find a way that minimises my interaction with him. Various doctors have started him on medication (mood stabilsers and anti-depressants, I believe), but he refuses to take them and it ends in a physical stand-off between him and my friend. He is now almost as tall as her and already broader/stronger - friend is short and petite.

The other problem is (again) my friend. She uses the drugs to get him through a rough patch at school and then tapers them off again without medical supervision. Her goal always seems to be to get him off the drugs as quickly as possible, probably because the path of least resistance is always not to have the stand off getting him to take them. I have tried to suggest (gently) that she should think of them as a long term treatment for an illness rather than a chemical cosh to subdue him, but (as a PP pointed out) since I have no DC she basically thinks I know nothing.

This boy's behaviour is not being managed well, his behaviour is very difficult to be around. Some of it is due to SN and some is due to poor parenting.

YANBU.

Because the parent has no insight there is nothing much you can do or say. I would continue to find excuses and distance yourself.

Hopefully with a new partner on the scene you will have opportunities to meet up with her minus the boy?

ODD is not diagnosed by CAMHS anymore either. I find with ADHD is often ASD traits. Having a child with SN can be a very lonely place and she has challenged him on his behaviour and is probably embarrassed herself by his behaviour towards you. I wouldn't cut her off can you not arrange something to do the two of you?