heartily sick of dh - don't love him,certainly don't fancy him, currently don't even like the bugger!

[RanToTheHills]

that's it really. Just had one hell of a night - kids waking up, me not sleeping anyway as stressed about work. Argued again this am, right in front of the kids. Not exactly healthy or grown-up and not good for them to see. I'd been thinking we should stick it out because of the kids, but sometimes I start to doubt this.
It doesn't help that I@m losing respect for him - I find him greedy, lazy and unattractive. I don't feel he's on my side and is constantly making things difficult. i realise this doesn't make me sound very nice, but I'm just being honest!

but why? I've got enough to lose sleep over without guilt as well! Curious as to why you advise this - voice of experience? Are you saying have fun on the side in a long-term affair in order to be able to put up with the daily crap for the sake of the kids? Or am I misreading you?

Well, don't have it if you will feel guilty about it.

I have known people for whom it worked, however.

If anything, it did wonders for their anger management and gave them something else to focus on besides how crap things were w/the spouse.

Again, the golden rule: only w/someone who has just as much to lose if found out.

so expat does a married man no kids rate higher or lower than me with kids? ;)

only joking sorry

Married man w/kids the same ageish. Even better - married man in position of power or authority. More to lose if he gets found out so he'll do his best not to.

No 'falling in love', either.

Sorry, unorthodox, I know, but after all, my grandmother was French .

well, wouldn't necessarily say no. V Mediterranean attitude you have - that's not a criticism by the way! I'm not so sure contemporary marriage is cut out for monogamy.
However, I have a friend who's just been left by her dh after his affair and she's devastated. He had a lot to lose, and chose to lose it. It can get v messy, I think.

RTTH - I am sorry that you have had a bad night. Sometimes you need to shout to clear the air, sorry to hear it was in front of the kids.

When i saw your thread it did make me laugh though as i feel like that some days. Almost thought id typed it myself without thinking. Im sure my DH thinks the same about me sometimes. Then he does something nice and I remember why i love him. He is never violent, just gets grummpy sometimes.

I wouldn't think about the past, things change. Your old flames have probably become grummpy old buggers too!

Yes, it can get messy. W/teh wrong people. Some I have known have waited years for the right person to indulge.

Sympathys, Ran, I really relate to thisd feeling. Sis leant me a book by (I think( Byron Katie called "Loving what is". Basically the gist of it is if you can behave AS IF you love him, your feelings will change. It's really hard to do at first, and feels like you are doing all the work to fix the relationship, but the feelings can start to turn around, I found that when I let go of the resentment a little bit, I could be a bit "warmer" and get a bit of warmth back. You need to talk to him, if he will listen. What about counselling? Can you make some space w'out the chn to tell him what youre feeling. He probably needs it spelt out to him exactly what support you expect eg splitting chores, giving you "me" time, getting up twice a week w the kids etc etc. Hope you can workmit out, think all relationships go in waves of feeling disappointing, but you've got fab kids togther, invested 8 yrs of yr life with him, thats got to be worth a go surely? Good luck

thanks, YV. I'll try to talk to him, tho not currently on speaking terms, plus he's out of the country anyway! He thinks it's only me who has to change - because I shout/swear/last out. He hate the behaviour. I hate his laziness - inability to help out wiht the kids fully in the morning, inability to understand how shattered I am after so little sleep etc etc. I don't know how I can get him to listen properly.

Does he know how bad things are? Can you make an "appointment" with him? Say sthing like"I know we havent been getting on too well, I want to try and sort it out, can we sit down after the DCs are in bed and talk about it" Then start by saying s'thing along the lines of "I know you work hard, but whren I have to do all the work at home I reallly feel XYZ" Keep telling him you want to work it out. Accept any small concession he might make gratefully(eg,to cook once a week or whatever) cos the only way is up. try talking to relate or similar, even on your own and for ideas on how to best approach him. He might surprise ypou, he might be desperate to improve things,and be relieved you have broached it. I hope so. Thinking of you, I have so been there!

he knows, we reach the occasional compromise but things have been bad for a while now. I know we need to do something but had been hoping our relationship would improve in the interim. Not so.

ran - you do sound at the end of your tether. So sorry. I do think that some sleep, a bit of time to yourself would help you get things clearer in your own head before taking stuff further (if that's what you decide to do).

yellowvan - that sounds exactly what I do with my DH. We go through awful patches but there is a hell of a lot that is good in him and our relationship and the more I focus on that the more the other good things come to the fore. It certainly works.

Its bl**dy hard work thats the trouble. Unfortunately I think you do have to bite the bullet when things are bad and make a big effort even if you are seething inside- "if you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got."as they say, and youre not happy with what youre getting atm. You have to start doing things differently. Have you asked him what he actually wants from the relationship? could you use that as a starting point?

hmm, might be scared by his reply! He wants all singing, all dancing marriage - good friend, good sex, good, stable environmt for our kids. I'm more of a cynic and find these difficult, well with him. In my dreams, my marriage is stable, loving, affectionate - the example my parents set was a good one -I haven't found the same though, they love each other to bits which has got them thro the tough times

If thats what he wants tho he must be prepared to work at it, marriages like that don't just happen, its work! The good friend partof marriage is much underrated as well imo. It sounds like your expectations are realistic,and you have the shared goal of stability for the chn at least to start from. Can you come at him from that angle? The good sex bit will prob be the last bit to fall into place ime! ypou are lucky to have such a good point of reference in having watched your parents' marriage work so well. Can you talk to your mum? would she be able to help? I don't think youre ready to give up yet or you would have started a thread asking "Right, how do I file for divorce?"

oh ran - not feeling any different today?

please try and get through xmas - i know it's the worst possible time of the year for family break ups etc, but you sound like the sort of person who might feel guilty about affecting a family xmas. jan 2nd is the best day for a talk with the OH! hopefully slightly hung over, but looking forwards and trying to build on what you have had.

i know it's tough as a single parent, but i personally think it's better looking after three people who love me, rather than looking after three people who love me and having to put up with sulks, moods, never lifting a finger and someone drinking the child benefit.

i don't think that financial considerations are the main point here against your happiness, but maybe give the tax credit helpline a ring and ask them to give you an idea of what you might expect to get in tax credit if your OH wasn't about. 0845 300 3900. that might give you some idea of what you're working with. ( I did this when my ex was pissing me off - it makes you feel like you're doing something about it even if you're in two minds about doing something about it...)

thanks, he's away atm anyway. Will try to talk at the w/e - will keep you posted!

Sometimes things are just bad because you're very tired and busy when children are small and that's just a stage you go through and when those pressures ease which they do then it's better.

But sometimes it's just fundamentally wrong as it was in my marriage.
Perhaps he could change then - if he's lazy and unattractive if presented with the risk you would leave him may be he'd lose some weight buy better clothes and take some exercise with the children.

I called him fat the other day (he isn't really but has a 38" waist and I'm worried as he's also got high blood pressure) -however he binges on chocs eg 2 brownies in one sitting, whole layer of truffles etc. Quite disgusting! He says leave him alone, i know i'm expected to apologise when I next seeing him for saying the F-word. I am sorry for that, it was mean but does reflect how revolted I feel and how worried I am about his carelessness. As a family we're full on organic & home-made food, he however buys himself treats and can never stop at one.

so in answer to your question Xenia, yes, it would mean a lot to me if he made much more of an effort to look attractive. i don't know what a real difference it would make in the long-term but it would surely help. I've been hiniting at this for yrs but he just gets offended.

When you describe him as lazy and unmotivated, and putting weight on, it all kind of fits the mould of someone who is depressed. I know that depression is very hard to live with, more so if it is not diagnosed.

I know that many women get PND, and this seems to be in part because it is such a radical change in lifestyle. Could it be that he is depressed and therefore becoming very helpless and stagnant in his approach to life?

Depression is much more readily diagnosed in women, but I think men suffer equally, and often it is left much longer before getting treatment.

Only an idea - you will probably straight away know whether this is a possibility. But it is amazing how much a depressed person can drag you down, and how much difference it can make if they take Anti-D's and how quickly.