I really don't understand why men do this..

[bridie69]

DD called me earlier in tears. She was on a train back to where we live and seems a group of pissed up men got on the same carriage and were being totally abusive and unpleasant to everyone, picking on the women in particular.She was really worried and I told her to get the guard. One of them sat beside her and was breathing beer fumes all over her and asking her to "smile darling". Seems a man intervened and asked him to stop and then became the target of the abuse, all of it alcohol fuelled it seems. I just picked her up. She is quite shaken but I am bloody livid. Didn't exactly sound like they were teenagers too not that that would have been an excuse. Who are these scumbags and what makes them such unpleasant misogynists? Just fuming yet feeling so useless now. DD is 21.

Lots of posts about what the OP's did should have done. Because obviously it's up to her to manage these men's behaviour- that's just how men are, after all.

I used to work in a job where my regular train journey commute home was at 10.30pm. being harassed on the train by drunk men was quite a normal occurrence for me, especially at weekends and in December (office party drunks, the worst). I did learn some strategies to deal with it.

Firstly sit in a busy carriage not a quiet one. This is counter intuitive to the idea of a quiet journey, but the more people are in the carriage the less likely you are to be singled out for harassment, or for harassment to happen in the first place.

If a noisy group of drunks get into your carriage move straight away to another carriage, dont hang around and give them a chance to single you out, just go. If you can find the carriage the guard is sitting in all the better.

If you get stuck and you can't move put headphones in and start to read or play on your phone. Don't make eye contact, don't look at them, don't give them an opening.

If they do single you out be as bland and dull as possible. "Come on love, smile" "I'm tired, I've been at work all day, I don't feel like smiling". They want to get a rise out of you, don't give it to them, dont get visible upset or angry even if you're raging inside. Also don't be afraid to get up and move at this point, maybe I was lucky but I never had anyone follow me down the train.

I'm sorry your daughter had this happen to her, it's shitty that some men feel this kind of behaviour is acceptable, but they do.

Whether OP is over involved or not makes no diffence, when this happens to anyone it shakes you up and makes you want to call someone to offload.

It's one of the reasons I don't enjoy going out TbH. I don't know if its this town but every time ive been out its either drunken girls being arsish and shouting obscenities etc, or some drunk bloke wants a fight, neither of which I find pleasant.

Men who do this are misoganistic fuckers who get off on making vulnerable women feel threatened.

Call the BTP but for gods sake don't pull the emergency cord as pp suggested. The train will stop immediately between stations, which would not help the situation at all.

Sorry OP. It doesnt matter what age your dd is frankly, even if it were an adult it is still very daunting to be a target of bullies.

I hope your dd is okay today.

RiceCrispieTreats You are an utter twat. Probably without children.

I don't disagree about RCT being a twat, but I DO object to the second sentence, ILive. I don't have children but of course I'm angry and concerned at the way the OP's DD has been treated. Don't you dare assert that people who don't care don't have children!

Personally I tend to think that speaking up and shaming people like this is a better approach than being quiet and bland or pretending to be on the phone; but I do think if they're drunk and/or in a group it probably changes things a bit.

Did she get the guard/train manager, OP? That's what I'd suggest if they were drunk and didn't respond to being shamed.

I hope she's OK.

Oh suzanne I'm sorry, yes I did not spot your attempt at irony. And strangly enough you don't seem to have spotted the irony of your own post calling mine clutter.

oops, I seem to have done it again!

I never told my Mum any of this type of thing. I had it too at this age. Some kids do share more than others and that's healthy to a point. But I think the DD should have dealt with it herself, perhaps discussed it with friends, the police...anyone other than her Mum!

I would have devestated my Mum if I'd told her all of the incidents like this!

It's horrible, isn't it. I used to commute from my home to Central London daily for university, so was often on the last train home, but luckily I never had any of these truly unpleasant encounters. Witnessed a few though :(

The worst abuse I ever got on a tube train was from some old woman, who was clearly not in her right mind (honestly) who took exception to me and my boyfriend holding hands and sitting giggling together. I imagine she probably had Alzheimer's or some other kind of mental health condition, but she was going on and on and ON about how "dirty" we were being, look at what a little slut I was, with my short skirt (just above the knee, honestly!) and so on and on. If I'd been on my own it would have been upsetting and intimidating, but because BF was there, it made it more of a comedic thing, although it really wasn't at the time.

So it's not just drunk men who can make you feel uncomfortable; although granted I doubt the mad granny would have physically attacked us, which very easily could have happened in your DD's case.

Very very uncomfortable and stressful. :(

you don't seem to have spotted the irony of your own post calling mine clutter
Lol, keep up, it was erm tongue in cheek

Drunks can be very alarming, I agree with R0n

I was on the train one Saturday late afternoon when drunkish men got on and started being racist and loud on the carriage, one man engaged with them and they loved the fuel on the fire - when he left, so did they ( they changed carriage, they were villa supporters so I knew we would disembark before them) and we all had peace.

Don't engage, ignore and don't act the victim either or add fuel to their fire.

Tbh a night in jail every time they behaved like this probably wouldn't cure them...

Hope your dds OK and can learn from this

"when this happens to anyone it shakes you up and makes you want to call someone to offload. "

Absolutely! It's one of the functions of oxytocin, which is released as a stress hormone as well as its better-known function in labour and breast-feeding - oxytocin is also the "social" hormone, and it is the reason why we do feel the need to offload when we've experienced something stressful. I know after I witnessed a car accident very close to my own car, after I got home (knees wibbling by then) I felt completely compelled to phone people and tell them what had just happened, which bewildered me! Until I found out about the oxytocin thing. This TED talk explains it really well

ThumbsWitches: were you not concerned that someone with Alzheimers was alone on a train and behaving in such a way? My aunt has vascular dementia and sometimes escapes the house and goes walkabout. Thankfully, she has wonderful neighbours who look after her. The last time she did this she ended up in hospital, after having a fall and being found lying in the square in town.

I once brought five 12 year old girls into a busy city centre as a birthday treat. A man got on the train and sat in our bay. He proceeded to manspread and made everyone feel very uncomfortable. His mates called him over, after one stop, but he refused to move. This was early morning (Saturday). And he made a big thing out of widening his legs. He was obviously enjoying it, the creep!

Nope. It's only with hindsight that I've realised that is probably what the problem was - at the time she was just a mad old woman who was harrassing us out of the blue. We were only in our teens!

And he made a big thing out of widening his legs

Apes do that, exposing the genitals... it's a dominance display

Apes do that, exposing the genitals... it's a dominance display

Yuck.

How early in your teens ThumbWitches? Thirteen to fifteen and that would have been scary and without understanding, though most teens do understand that old age can have mental health issues, because it's been well documented in schools for at least 20 years now.

Any other age above this and you should have known something was amiss, unless this all took place decades ago, 70s, (if so apologies).

Elendon - this was 30 years ago. It was on a London tube train, we were around 18, with fuck all experience of mental health issues. Are you happy now?

I am astounded that I'm being browbeaten for something that happened in my teens, ffs!

I'm not brow beating you. However, your comparison of 'mad old woman' to that of of a bunch of pissed up men in their 30s is odd.

No, it isn't - it was an example of being intimidated on a train. You're just projecting.

In 1971 my friend and I were going back to our training hospital after a weekend off duty.The train was not crowded but a bunch of squaddies piled into the carriage that we were in and proceeded to get more pissed.It was one of those carriages that had no connecting corridor with the next carriage so no chance of moving till the train stopped.They proceeded to get more and more lairy and gobby and despite trying to ignore them < wouldn't touch youse anyway yer fat lezzers > we had to put up with them for the next half hour.When we got back to the nurses home we phoned their barracks and reported them to the duty officer.3 days later we were asked to report to the Senior Nursing Officer's office where 5 very shame faced young men apologised verbally to us both.They also gave us written apologies.I couldn't believe that my phone call had such an effect.It hadn't.Turned out that my mum(who I'd confided in) Had visited the barracks (60 miles away) and created a total shitstorm.Colleague and I were 20 at the time but so happy to have a mum to stand up for us.Sorry about lack of paragraphs.Got carried away down memory lane.

I'm not projecting, in fact, you are the one who is probably projecting. This thread is specifically about intimidation of young women (the OP's daughter called her in tears) by men on a train.

Fine. Have it your way. Look up the term "browbeating" while you're at it.
I'm out.

though most teens do understand that old age can have mental health issues

just because you know someone has mental health issues doesn't make them any less intimidating.