H vs DCs - what should I have done?

[AltaRica]

Have NC as the details are quite identifying. I don’t know whether I am in the wrong or not, or how to handle this for the best, so would appreciate the opinion of the MN jury. Apologies for the tedious detail, but it is relevant.

In a nutshell, H is a rather entitled, self-absorbed workaholic who is disengaged from domestic life unless it suits him. This is coupled with low-level EA behaviour directed at me, mainly in the form of verbal putdowns and attempts at manipulation.

We both work ft in similar professional fields but he considers his job to be more important than mine and so doesn’t pull his weight on the domestic front (understatement). One of the few things he has agreed to do is 3 of the 10 school runs a week with DC1 (9) and DC2 (5).

We both work near the school, and have two options for the school run. One is a train journey followed by a short bus trip, the other is two tube journeys. I prefer the first way as the train and bus are rarely overcrowded so it is a more pleasant journey, usualy get seats etc. H prefers the tube journey because he thinks it is quicker (debatable). The DCs hate the tube journey as the second leg is always extremely overcrowded and unpleasant (crossing central London in peak hour). They also say that they dislike H taking them to school as he is always cross with them, pulls them by the arm along corridors and on stairs etc. H dismisses their complaints by saying they should behave better during the journey (which to be fair is probably true) and that there is no choice about the journey because he wants to get to work as quickly as possible.

H usually takes them to school on a Friday as I often work from home that day. Today both DCs were begging me to take them to school by train, instead of H taking them by tube. I had to go into work today anyway so I caved and agreed to take them. Cue unpleasant snarly comments from H about me undermining him and that, given that it was “his” day I should “do what every normal parent does” and stick to that.

I feel like I am stuck between a rock and a hard place. On the one hand, maybe H is right and I should stay out of it entirely and let him do as he pleases when he does the school run, even if it makes the DCs unhappy. On the other hand, it really doesn’t feel right to completely ignore the DCs point of view and tell them they have to put up with the way H behaves. I worry that if they don’t feel listened to, they will just resent me for not standing up for them.

So what was the right thing to do in this scenario? Should I have listened to the DCs, or to H?

Your H is actually being abusive towards them because he doesn't consider their needs at all, is jealous of their bond with you, possessive over them, sees them as trophies.

It is difficult for me to think of any reason why one DC would be overall worse off if you separated. The benefits will most likely still outweigh the negative by far.

Perhaps thinking of some non-negotiable statements would help?
"I'm not undermining you, I'm exercising the dc desire to go on the train today because I am going to work anyway"

Your H is being an utter dick and throwing his toys at the pram because the DC are daring to stand up to his control abusive ways and express their preference to you over him. I mean how very dare they...

The likely difference in consequences for the DCs relate to the fact that they are very different people. DC1 is very change-averse and inflexible and for reasons that would out me utterly stands to lose much more from the inevitable change in circumstances that would follow a separation. DC2 is a more flexible personality and has less "at stake". So although circumstances would change for both DCs, I am convinced that the effects on DC1 would be much worse than for DC2. I wish I could believe otherwise and tell myself that it would all be alright in the end, but I can't.

And yes, you're right - the EA behaviour is also being directed towards the DCs to a certain extent. However it is limited by the fact that H isn't around much (and often isn't "present" even when he is physically here).

Toys out of the pram is spot on.

separation will set off a chain of events that will have significant negative consequences for one or both DCs

Staying with this man and letting them think this is how loving relationships are is definitely having negative consequences for everyone.

I understand totally about the trophy thing, but trust me, when they have to do the donkey work showing off with trophies involves, they soon become less keen.

I would argue that both your children would stand in far worse stead in the longer run if you were to continue to remain together.

What are you both teaching them about relationships here; would you want them to have a relationship like yours now is?. You are showing them that on some level this is acceptable to you. Its a terrible burden to place on any child with or even without special needs, the realisation that you stayed only because of them and their subsequent understanding that their parents relationship was based on a lie. You are therefore not avoiding causing them additional pain by at all remaining within this.

I do understand that staying has negative consequences too, I really do. It's just that as things stand at the moment I honestly believe that splitting would just exchange one set of issues for another, equally negative set. I am trying to engineer some changes that may reduce the impact of leaving, but they are not going to happen overnight. In the meantime all I can do is try my best to manage things as they are.

Alta, it sounds really hard. You are trying to do the absolute best you can in what must feel like different choices which would all result in different levels of crap. As is so often the case, women are the ones trying to hold whatever needs holding together and in the process end up sacrificing their own happiness. I think as women we are conditioned to "look after" and "keep trying" to our detriment. Been there, then broke out. Hope you can find a way

You have at least all convinced me that I did do the right thing this morning, so thank you for that.

Good luck love. Sorry you're in a predicament.

I'm afraid you have to play the long game and honestly you do have to divorce him. Your DC will be better overall when he is not part of the day to day structure of his lives. Then you have to concentrate on giving them the tools to survive his bollocks.

My children were given the right at 8 & 9 to stop seeing their father or only to see him in a visitors centre. This was after 6 years of being divorced and seeing him by themselves. Most visits were fine-ish, but occasionally he would go too far, and we would make a police report. Then the day came when he really scared them, and they wanted to take permanent action.

Initially it was a visitors centre but now they have chosen not to see him, and so far he hasn't taken us back to court. He just pretends to anyone who asks that they live equal time with him!! The last time he saw them (in the visitors centre was January).

What I'm trying to say is that your children will make their own choices and are likely to be listened to by the justice system much younger than you imagine.

Staying is the worst of all worlds for 3 out of 4 of you. Big girl pants I'm afraid.

Hmm if you started divorce proceedings the in 2 years it will be over. Likely that you and the dc could stay in the house and he moves elsewhere...

Don't assume shared care as such will happen your DC having to stay elsewhere - undoubtedly it will be a case of their dad probably taking them out for tea or something because he's too much of an arse to put your dc needs first and make overnights work.

I'm so sorry for you!!! I'm actually not wallywobbles but her DC1. and I'm 11. if you divorce and I REALLY recommend that to you!!!

I know it will be hard for you DCs but they will recover and become stronger thanks to the divorce.

i know I am emotionally stronger than a lot of kids my age but if you talk to them, tell THE ENTIER truth then they will forgive you the hard times arrive.

I hope that help you and your kids

(ps: your H sound's like a blumen ass so get RID of him NOW, TODAY, THIS MINUTE.)

Is the issue that your DC are in private education and that would need to change if you separated? If so, that isn't a reason to stay with someone who is abusive to you and not great as a father either.

You could, for example, rent somewhere next door to a popular state secondary.

The DC might well struggle with a school move - you just don't know how that will pan out, you can guess but you don't know. But it's really not good for them to see the dynamics in your relationship and the dynamics are unlikely to change. What if, in future, your DC chose a partner who behaves like your H? Or behaved like he does?

Re the school run is extremely selfish of him to prioritise his work start time over his children's wellbeing. How awful to fear your DC doing the school run with their father because he isn't good to them.

As for staying with him so that you can seek to moderate how he behaves to the DC, you know that is crazy "logic" don't you? You're twisting yourself in knots to justify avoiding a hard but good decision (to LtB).

Wallywabble DC1, am sorry your father did all that and let you down. Sounds like you're doing well, good for you.

Thanks duckdeamon, it's not all was easy but I'm handling it pretty well.

I'm so, so sorry again for you