And here I am again...

[CostaRicanBananas]

I posted quite recently about DH's mood, anger etc. He eventually sat down to talk and we seemed to be working through our communication issues ok.

Months ago, I started a thread about this contact with his children etc
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2302430-Just-letting-off-steam-same-old-same-old?pg=4

Well, this weekend was another fiasco. Once again he didn't actually tell me that he was going up to see them until I asked, and by the looks of it he's back to the constant contact with his ex-wife. From what he's been telling me, he's been staying at his friend's house when he goes up. Today, I found out that he had booked a hotel room for tonight at the last minute, just for himself. When he called tonight, I gave him a couple of opportunities to give me what I was praying for: to tell me that the friend couldn't put him up for whatever reason and he had to make alternative arrangements as he was there. However, he didn't. So I told asked him directly where he was, and when the answer was a lie I simply told him that I can't do this anymore. I said that this wasn't what I had committed myself to (i.e. someone who isn't trustworthy) and that I couldn't possibly contemplate living like this for the rest of my life. Caught off guard, he didn't know what to say, conveniently 'lost connection' and sent me some pathetic message about me 'dragging us down this route again... we will talk tomorrow and you can explain...". Conveniently, the email confirming his hotel reservation has disappeared from his inbox and deleted folders - yep, I did snoop. It does NOT make it right and it's a violation of one's privacy, but there is no other way of confronting a liar.

He has always been very public about our relationship but when it comes to how he goes about his contact arrangements and his relationship with his ex-wife, there has always been an issue.

It just seems to me that you aren't happy with this relationship because you don't really trust him. It doesn't really matter if he's guilty of anything or not, does it? Because whether innocent or guilty, there is no trust.

What do you want? Him to cut the ex out of his life or never speak to her when he goes to see his children?

I can say with certainty that you shouldn't have gotten married with feelings like yours.

You still went ahead and married him after all that? Why did you do that to yourself?
You are exactly back in the same situation 9 months later, a waste of your time.
He has kids, an ex wife and that's fine. However he's a dodgy, deceitful person.
Do you really want to continue putting up with this?

He's given me quite a few reasons not to trust him, starting with how he initially lied about his sleeping arrangements (and by the looks of it, continued to do so well into our relationship and now marriage).

I want transparency and respect, that's all. You go where you say where you are going, you do what you say you are going to do. It's quite simple. And you let the other person in your life know, preferably a few days in advance, that you are going to be away. I don't want to have all these question marks in my head and to wondering why the secrecy. Not in a million years would it cross my mind to lie to him about where I am sleeping.

I married him because I wanted to believe in him and in our relationship. I wanted to trust him unconditionally. It was easier to tell myself that he understood where I was coming from and that there would be no more lies.

So he hasn't changed. The only thing that's changed is that you chose to marry him knowing all this, and from his point of you if you can do that then he doesn't need to do much else.?

*view

Yes, I did marry him. I could see his point that there is no easy way of telling someone that you stay at your ex's house every other week without fearing that it'll put the other person off.

We eventually got into a routine, he didn't give me any reason to suspect that he wasn't staying at his friend's house and there was nothing else to be suspicious about. I believed that we had resolved whatever the problem was - I still can't make any sense of it but I suppose that's me digressing from the main issue, i.e. he's lied again.

I see that managing this sort of contact arrangement isn't easy, especially if you haven't got a base in the area - realistically, there is only so much hanging around that you can do before you take them back home, so one way or another, he's bound to be in and out of their house anyway or looking after the children if she's out with her friends in the evening. There was one weekend when I went with him and as the ex got delayed coming back, we suddenly had to find somewhere to go with the boys for another couple of hours until she got back. If DH had been by himself, he would have just taken them back and played games with her until she arrived. These sort of things are pretty straightforward and being a single parent myself, I can appreciate that we DO need a break once in a while. However, why the lies?!?!

He's given you reason not to trust him, but you married him anyway? And now you're wondering why you're here again?

He's only doing what he's always done, lie to avoid getting in trouble. I'm not saying he's cheating, I'm just saying he lies to avoid problems and confrontations. No wonder you don't trust him. I'd probably spend a good part of every day wondering what else he's lying about.

IMO, people who lie to avoid getting in trouble rarely change, simply because it so often works.

I'm sorry I don't get it. He said he was staying at a friend's but really is staying at a hotel by himself? Why would he lie about that? It seems so pointless. Have I missed something?

Across he also gave me reason to believe that we had resolved it and settled into a routine. I thought we had moved forward with our relationship. Yes, lying to avoid getting into trouble but what trouble?

Spanish that's what I can't understand. I was hoping that he would voluntarily tell me that the friend couldn't put him up or similar and therefore he had had to get a hotel room. If I hadn't seen the email, I would have been none the wiser and would have believed that he was at his friend's. Why lie?

The email clearly said a single room and it had his name on it as the guest.

For one example, it bothers you that he stays/stayed at his ex-wife's house when he goes up to see his kids, right? He knows that if he tells you this you'll be upset and he'll be in 'trouble'. So he lies. He lies so you won't give him down the country. It could all be as innocent as can be, but the fact is that you do NOT want him staying with her, no matter what. He knows that, knows that you'll give him heck, so he lies. I'm not saying you are right or wrong in your feelings, not my call. I'm just pointing out an example of 'cause and effect', as it were.

Now it's gotten to the point that his first reaction to any situation with you is to lie. Example; the hotel room. Why on earth should he have to lie about staying in a hotel room? If it were my DH, for example, he would have called me to say "I won't be at Joe's tonight, he's got a 'hot date' and wants some privacy. So I'm staying at the Ritz tonite". No problem. But your DH feels he has to lie to you. Why? Because you don't trust him.

Bigger question. Why do you want to stay with him?

I understand the 'cause and effect' and I believe that somebody had mentioned it before. I don't believe it's right for him to stay with his ex-wife although deep down, there have been times when I've questioned how realistic that is. But it's down to him to have sat down right at the start, when the issue came up, and work on it. Simply telling me lies was always only going to bring us to situations such as this one.

Things were already quite rocky as he left home yesterday morning, and it's possible that he felt that adding another twist to the equation would only make matters worse. But then, 'cause and effect' is that I don't trust him because we started off with a lie and there have been others along the way - always about the same part of his life. And the fact that he deleted the confirmation email definitely shows that he was taking steps to cover his tracks.

Because he's never given me any reason to suspect that anything else isn't as he says, and because I am reasonable enough to see that a regular contact arrangement without a local base will never be easy to arrange. It's over about 3 hours drive each way and quite frankly, his DC deserve more than just a handful of hours twice a month (if say,he wasn't to stay overnight). And for his ex's sake too: being able to stay out with friends until late without having to organise baby-sitter or having somebody to share the running around twice a month - that IS his job as parent too. So I see all of that and it makes me think that it's not an easy one to get right by any means. It does NOT justify the lies but it makes me question whether I have been unreasonable with regard to his arrangements, and therefore I have also played a part in getting us to this situation.

Of course you've played a part. If you truly believe there is no 'hanky panky' going on with ex, that he has zero interest in rekindling their past, that all that is happening is an extraordinarily good relationship between two exes, one that allows him to spend maximum time with his children at minimum cost, then you are being a bit unreasonable to resent him staying there. I admit that in your place I probably wouldn't like the appearance, but if I knew my DH wasn't doing anything 'wrong', I'd keep it to myself and just 'grin and bear it'. Because I trust him. Because it's good for his children to have him around.

If, contrariwise, you think he still carries a flame for her or has a history of marital infidelity, then you are right to be worried. But it's also true is that you shouldn't have married him in that case.

He shouldn't lie about it of course, but I can see why he does it. And one lie leads to another, and another, until lying is the first thing you do!

So two weeks have gone by... I confronted DH about the hotel to which he explained that the friend had his girlfriend over and couldn't put him up. He also said that he thought that he was trying to avoid us arguing or me thinking that there was more to it. What he failed to mention at that point, and I don't know what made me think of it, was that the friend is moving his girlfriend in and DH won't be able to stay there going forward. So last weekend, his initial plan was to meet the ex half way on Friday and have his DC with us for the weekend. Apparently, she had a leaving drinks and couldn't do the driving - personally, I don't blame her if she simply refused as I wouldn't want to spend my Friday eve and Sunday afternoon doing a 3 hr round trip after a week working full time and looking after two children. Meanwhile, DH enjoys his freedom and only plays the parent role every other weekend. But I digress... DH thought hotel for both of us at such short notice would work out too expensive at such short notice, so he ended up not seeing them at all.
Going forward, he says that his DC will either come down or we'll go up together, but in view of what happened last week I can't see this working out.
One poster mentioned previously that maybe I wasn't emotionally ready for the complications of moderns families, in spite of the rewards. I believe this is true. My head is a mess. It fills me with anxiety that I don't really know where things stand and what's going on - and DH won't tell me because I've always said how I worked incredibly hard to make mine and DS' lives as drama-free as possible - yep, I said that more than once. Or the fact that the ex is always lurking in the background. So much so that she was getting all ready to take the children to visit DH's family on the other side of the globe, at huge expense, even though the youngest who is 9 has never even been there - by that I mean that it's not like they visit regularly or the grandparents come over. It seems that she's always in touch with people, via Skype etc... Yes, there are the children but she's always present one way or another... And I don't deal with it well... I do find it incredibly hard, also because the whole dynamics would change if she had a partner, as very few men would put up with the overlaps and need to stay close. The way I see it is that this is her way of securing her place, seeing that she hasn't got DH. Thoughts??