Christmas with low contact in laws - advice

[QueenofallIsee]

I am currently low contact with my DPs family after a loud and rather messy argument in July this year - fault on both sides, much was said that cannot be taken back and since then we have all kept our distance i.e. DP will visit without me, I don't pop round anymore, the kids visit on specific days, cards are exchanged on birthdays rather than spending time together. It is the second row in 13 years so we are not/have not been all at each others throats all the time but as I understand it, this is a relief to my in-laws as in fact they have never been that keen on me.. in fact my BIL made it clear that he had never liked me and would be glad to never see me again. This was very hurtful as I had thought we were friends but it is what it is and I said things that I am sure were hard for him to hear as well.

Christmas is looming and my DP is finding it hard - he would prefer to visit as we always have (my in-laws tend to have one day over the season with all their children, grandchildren and partners/wives/husbands together and a buffet/games etc) What would you do in this scenario? The way I see it is that I would need an invitation from my PIL, as I am not welcome to just rock up. I would see an invite as a way of recognizing that I am there and be treated courteously. DP thinks that such an insistence is a controlling thing on my part. I can see how it could be perceived as such as my in-laws run an open house with people visiting on spec constantly but that isn't my intent...can I have some opinions? I guess I am after recognition that they are a) willing to have me there b) that I will be treated politely (and by accepting the invite I would be committing to the same of course) c) that for the season we would put our differences aside for my DPs sake. Without an invite it is as though I have just pushed my way in regardless. My pride won't allow me to be seen begging for an invite, I suppose that (perhaps pettily) I want them to KNOW that I am not angling for a way back 'in' but that I am there for the sake of their son and not give them the opening to slag me for it. WWYD?

Well both sides will be hurting and probably agonising and discussing what to do about Christmas.
I am a DM a SIL MIL etc and I know the only way to resolve anything is meet face to face. It is painful but you have already admitted that the row wasn't all one sided. I think that shows you are a decent person. Unless you think your MIL is really inherently evil, then she probably is a decent person as well. What you are is, different people.

I wouldn't write or text. I would go round and see them. Try and discover a time when your MIL is home alone and has a bit of time to see you. Then say that you are sorry that this situation has occurred. This is the truth after all.

You have a reason for improving this situation, your Dh and your DCs. Also if you have a son, you are going to be a MIL one day. IMAGINE.

You won't be begging, you will be doing the decent thing.

If they open the door, see you, and say F off, then they are in the wrong and you can be smugly in the right, and let your DCs and DH go to the Christmas do on their own.
When apologising always keep to the pronoun 'I'

So what if they don't like you and you don't like them .... You both love your DH and your DCs and this row is making them suffer. Why would anyone want someone they love to suffer?
Do the decent thing.
Best of luck, as it is not easy. Relationships I mean.

Thank you for responding holeinmyheart, you are right that I don't want anyone to suffer. My in laws are decent people and generally we have got along very well - I think that at least part of the difficulty is how hurt everyone is and how much it really has damaged what was a healthy and happy extending family. That said, I am quite glad to know the truth, how dreadful to keep going there, inviting them over, sharing our whole life and actually be only tolerated underneath it all. I feel foolish to be honest.

I think you are right in that I should talk to my MIL and suggest that we do out it to one side for DPs sake this Christmas, if polite tolerance is suitable to everyone usually and we just grit our teeth through the holiday season then hopefully that would work.

It sounds like there was fault and blame on all sides. It's easy for me to say from the outside, I know, but I think it would be easier to do baby steps like just going along to a big busy family do where you can distance yourself and just play with the kids if you like, while at the same time just being there is a step on your part. Them inviting you (and I mean telling your DH you're invited) is a baby step on their part. Expecting formal apologies and invitations is a step away from harmony (have you formally apologised for what you said?). Personally I would keep
Things polite and not get too involved. For the sake of my DH and children and their Xmas. Big busy events where you can stay out of serious discussions may be the way forward for you all to decide if you can all take a deep breath and get over it in the future. Serious/formal discussions about what was said will surely lead to more arguments and more stress for your husband/marriage.

Only my opinion. Obviously you decide.

I agree that your best option is to talk to your MIL beforehand and be straightforward about it - complete openness and honesty is the only thing that's likely to work. But I would also suggest that if there is any unpleasantness, then you will leave again rather than cause another row; hopefully MIL will then exhort BIL to show some civility to you as well.

I'm sorry you've had this falling out, it sounds quite painful all round. :(

I found out that my MIL had a fairly low opinion of me a few years ago, when DH told me that she'd said I was breaking up the family, because I refused to allow the drunken violence of my BIL into my family home with small children on Christmas Day. I didn't take it to heart though - because I would far rather she thought that, and thought poorly of me for it, than have BIL here. I thought less of her though, for thinking it, and for failing to place the blame squarely where it belonged - on BIL.

Thank you honeyroar, no I am not expecting an apology nor have I demanded one. I haven't proffered one myself either. It was more the cringe factor of turning up as though nothing has happened being something I wanted to avoid, I was thinking that if they invited me then there would be no surprises but you have a point (as does DP, don't tell him) in that it steps away from harmony not toward it and sets me very much apart.

I am not wanting to go over the whole thing time and time again certainly, it won't change what was said or how anyone feels and it won't make it easier to live with!

Thank you thumbwich, I appreciate you taking the time to reply. Sorry that you had that experience, it is painful certainly. I think I will try to see my MIL and ask for her buy in to making the season work for all concerned, perhaps agree what SHE would prefer and go from there.

I feel bad for my DP, he is a good un and he stuck up for me despite finding the whole thing really awful. I try to hold my tongue though I don't like the children going there and being with people who loath me but they have a wonderful relationship and I figured that if the in laws have managed to hide their disdain from even me for so many years then there is no reason why the children should know anything about it. We are pretty much all terribly polite

May I ask what the row was about, was it about for instance their overall attitude towards your own self?. It seems that a lot was said on both sides that day and although you have said there is fault on both sides, that side have not apologised (nor perhaps have accepted fully their share of the responsibility) for their actions.

Did your man express surprise when he also discovered that his brother has never liked you?.

I think you may find that his mother may well come down on the side of her other son here and will do that over both you and her other son.

Do your children wonder why you do not go with them to see their relations?. Or do they understand your reasons why.

Never forget that you are always under no obligation to see people that you are not comfortable around. He has and can still see them if he chooses to, it does not blithely follow that you have meek follow in his wake. He cannot expect you though to just suck it up because they have still not apologised (and perhaps will not do so either).

I would think your children are aware that things are amiss between you and this set of grandparents. Unless these grandparents can also put aside their differences then attempts at reconciliation from you may not work at all. It has to be an open and honest process from both sides.

Are they the sort of people who will apologise and will take full responsibility for their actions?. Your man chose you as his partner so they are really denigrating him and his choices as well here.

I also think that on some level your DP would just like everyone to get along so that he does not have to become any further involved. Well that ship has already sailed.

Thanks for your comments Attila (your user name is one of my favourites by the way). My children don't wonder as we have not made a big hoo-haa about it, they see their grandparents very often and have always seen them both with and without me, so far they have not remarked upon it. I must stress that I have NOT apologized either nor asked them too...It seemed to me that there was not much to be gained from false apologies

I don't want to out myself and this might out me actually but the row started as my BIL felt that I was not being friendly enough or nice enough to his girlfriend...who is also my sister for extra pressure. I felt and expressed that my relationship with my sister, regardless of his feelings about it or his relationship with her, was not up for discussion and it snowballed from there.

My DP is not putting me under any pressure at all, it is more that I want to do the right thing and have lost sight of what that right thing actually is. My MIL will certainly be on the 'side' of my BIL and my sister, they are round there bleating all the ruddy time bitter. In all honesty ever since my sister and BIL started their relationship, things have been tense and this is sort of the result of that

Was it just your BIL who said such things? Or did MIL and FIL say something too? If just BIL then he could just be mouthing off and being tolerated by his family, as in "Ah, ignore him, he gets like that, it's just his way." I have a BIL like that!

Talk to your sister, if you can. Tell her that the two of you need to understand what the hell is going on to make you and you alone the one being thrown to the lions here.

Your DP really should have said something to his DB too. Though I appreciate that that is hard. My DH has never directly challenged his DBs similar antics, declaring I was not part of the family, just a marry in, and then trying to hit me when I pointed out that that would also apply to his wife too.

BIL ended up suspended on tippy toes, pushed up against the wall, my hands knotted in the front of his shirt, quietly explaining why throwing a punch at a Boxercise instructor was never going to end well for him!

DH took me home, laughing his socks off. But we never really dealt with it, there was far worse going on at the time.

For your own sanity try to work out a way of talking to your Dsis and MIL, see if you can work around it

OurBlanche-that made me laugh!

Oo crikey, that's uncomfortable! Your sister going out with your BIL and then it causes ructions?!
He really had no business stepping into your relationship with your sister, that's for sure - I take it your relationship with her isn't the best anyway, eh? If she's a bit of poisonous type herself, she might have been talking against you before this all blew up - and it might be the case that their feelings changed towards you because of her. But this is all wild speculation and please don't feel obliged to corroborate or answer any of it.

Personally, and that's just me and my funny ways - but I'd just leave him to go and visit unless you are actually invited. You all had a row, and nobody has apologised so unless you are apologising first - and why should you, you were the one that your BIL saw fit to tell you they never liked you - so it would be completely wrong to turn up at an open house without a specific invitation.

Sorry, I was travelling with work yesterday so went offline.

Thumb, my sister and I were very close, she was my best friend and favourite person, not at all poisonous...until she started seeing my DPs brother. She went from hanging out with us, spending holidays with us, coming 'home' each weekend (she lived away) to living up the road with a member of DPs family and never seeing her. She started breaking plans, sniping at DP, getting at me, saying snippy things to my MIL about me and DP, she was very entitled as well especially over DP. He did a lot for her and she got really funny if he couldn't do what she wanted...eventually it just became impossible to speak to her so I stopped trying...that led to this situation I suppose. It is awful as I never imagined that there was a situation where I wouldn't speak to my sister anymore, I would have done anything for her. But now its like she is a stranger.

I am not looking to fix this situation exactly, I can't see how it is fixable - I am just wanting to find a way to make the traditional family obligations with my in-laws tolerable and not see my DP and kids suffer on my account. I think the advice to 'negotiate' with my MIL separately is probably the right approach. I am almost treating my sister now as a SIL i.e. BILs girlfriend rather than my own family

OH that's so much more sad :(
More like she's thrown her lot in with them and taken on their view of you instead then. Which leads us back to "they've harboured bad thoughts about you all these years and you never knew".

I think you're right, there's no way to fix it - but I also entirely agree that it would be desperately uncomfortable to just rock up to MIL's without some prior agreement that it would be ok; so I hope you can get to speak to her and get that from her.

and for you - I think you need them. x

What I did when I fell out with inlaw (my sister was not involved and this makes it worst ) is to write a letter of apology to every one you fellout with. But never ever go back to house again they don't like you why should you.
But I did stop my kids going as well because if they don't like me they don't like my kids either ( this had been said to me that they found my kids hard work) .
Do no play happy famlies with people that don't like you. Teach your kids you don't have spend time with people that hate you.
Your MIL like s her son better than you and your kids . Remember that and keep you and yours away.

Truthfully thumb I do wonder if she has harboured secret resentment of me for years but I cannot dwell on it, I would go mad. I would prefer to think that the circumstances we find ourselves in (other things not mentioned here relevant to my own family not the in laws) have strained our relationship to breaking point and leave it at that. My hurt is enormous, I can't imagine that she has taken it lightly either - if she has found it easy though, surely all the more reason to leave it alone.

I take your point summerrainbow but I could not in all conscience separate my children from an extended family that adores them, is supportive, proud and helpful to them - there is no feeling of resentment of my children and any feelings that the In Laws have about me are certainly not the case with my kids. My MIL likes her sons better than me (of course!) but I cannot say that she in anyway marginalizes my children, she adores them and the hurt on all sides if she was to be separated from them would be massive. My children love me, respect me and we have a great relationship and thankfully they have the same with my in laws, at the moment one doesn't cross out the other. I certainly (when rational, I am not such all the time to be truthful) trust my DPs family to conduct themselves appropriately in their hearing though or perhaps I would have to reconsider the children visiting them.

Thank you for the support - I must in the spirit of fairness say again that I am not blameless, my BIL faced up to me and I could have walked away. My MIL lecturing me provoked me massively when I was already angry with BIL but I could have walked away from her. My sister telling me to fuck off was in response to me not wanting to engage with her and it could have seen me tell her not to be so rude but it didn't I responded in kind. I have to shoulder my share of the blame for how 'big' this has become no matter how hurt or angry I am. DP though is blameless (for this at least). The children are blameless.

Well good luck with the chat with MIL, Queen - I hope you can resolve the situation such that you can all meet up with civility on all sides (I know you'll manage it, just not sure about the ILs!) and have a good Christmas for the blameless ones' sakes. x

Thanks Thumb, really mean that as I needed the outlet with people who didn't know us! Have a family occasion with my sister coming up so will also be interesting to see how that goes - My mum and family will all be there so civility is a must.

Will try to see MIL next week if DP can help me arrange it