We're going through a really rough patch. Has anyone salvaged their relationship when it's going really badly?

[Nikitasol]

We've been together just over four years and have a two year old DC. We both have fairly stressful jobs, not enough money and bicker about housework etc., y'know, the usual. However in the last year things have really taken a turn for the worse. Within minutes of one of us getting home we'll be rowing, even the most simple 'what shall we have for dinner' conversation descends into a slanging match. We do care about each other a great deal and in some ways we are really compatible in that we have similar values and beliefs. In fact we are actually quite similar in general (similar upbringing) which is probably half the problem. We do both want to make things work between us, and I think we both feel that splitting up isn't an option but tbh at the moment I think we're both pretty miserable. It does improve a bit when we get time to ourselves but not loads and recently on a weekend away we had a massive upsetting row which felt like a bit of a watershed. We tried counselling but this ended up being a real hassle in terms of work commitments, babysitting and cost to minimal benefit. What can we do? Is there a way to make things better? Has anyone managed to salvage their relationship and be happy together? Currently we are both almost too afraid to say anything to each other in case we fight. I should say that my Partner is a really good dad and partner, we just can't communicate. All advice really appreciated!

Yes, mostly, feel free to PM me.

Thanks. Will do!

Yes it can be salvaged. DP and I went through something very similar and were very close to splitting up. We did Counselling, which I think helped but DP didn't. In the end we realised we needed to be honest, communicate lots more and in a calm, adult way. It really helped and we got back on track. Doesn't mean we don't argue sometimes but it's so much better. If you love each other, don't give up!

What are the main things you argue about?

Having a toddler is a really hard part of your marriage and many many people go through a hard time at this stage.

It is great that you are similar, similar values, similar outlooks on life and great that you want it to work.

The one piece of advice I would give you is the two of you need to sit down and agree to presume the best of each other. I know it sounds simple but it really changed the way we looked at things at this stage. Just presume he is doing his best/trying t be nice and he does the same for you.

So, when he comes in and says "what is for dinner?" You don't presume he is saying "What have you made for dinner because it is your job" Instead presume the best - he is simply asking what is for dinner and maybe doing so so he can help.

So instead of having the conversation "why the hell should I know, why don't you make something" - result a fight you'd say "I'm so tired I was thinking we could just do toasted cheese or even get fish and chips, what do you think?"

It is really tempting at this stage to get into competitive exhaustion/who is doing more but it really doesn't do much good to a relationship.

Obviously this works when neither person is taking the mickey - is actually trying their best.

I would also say, the more time you spend together without pressure the better, so even a walk in the evening or a cup of coffee in the morning together.

You do know that it's the fatigue causing it? DW and I have always disagreed about a lot of stuff, but we met in the middle. Except during DD's pre-school years. Then it was mortal combat, not because it was so stimulating. Yes, really. Too tired for sex, too poor for trips out, no time for a movie. But a fight? Doesn't need anything but a niggle and 15 seconds to get going. Then: massive adrenalin rush, lung exercise, and the possibility of victory.

Of course, the sick hollow feeling afterwards isn't good. We went to Relate after a bit, I went on ADs, did therapy.

Get yourselves help.

Not least because. Grr.

God, yes. Been married 25 years and had quite a few times like this. Don't worry too much, you can come through this and in a weird way it can even make things better. You just have to hang on to what you love about your DP, even if they're not displaying that right now. I try to remember, what sometimes seems like hate is just the other side of the coin from love. I know that sounds glib, and it's kinda cold comfort, but when you're arguing, at least you still care about each other. When someone loves you so much, they have an equally strong ability to cause you pain. When your OH is indifferent to you, that's when to really worry - and you can come back even from that. Just don't lose sight of him, don't let him become somebody you don't like. Tell him straight, this isn't who I married/pledged allegiance to, when am I going to get that person back? And they get to say the same to you. Bang through the rows, be honest with each other, try not to say hurtful things just to retaliate/win. Get your issues out in the open. 'It really annoys me when you...' And make practical plans re how you're each going to do things differently, write them down. You've got to feel you're moving forward. I often think the project of two people living together harmoniously for years is bloody impossible. So you have to have periodic rows, like tectonic plates shifting & causing an earthquake.

Thanks so much all. Yep it's definitely not improved by tiredness but I think we have, as mentioned, got into a competitive streak about who is doing more/working more/getting less sleep etc which has been quite unpleasant at times. I think perhaps we've also both been (in previous relationships), the ones in charge, so we're both locked in a bit of a power struggle too rather than trying to pull together. For my part, I've found motherhood hard and have really fought the domestic sphere side of things too. I think unfortunately we're also both equally defensive and critical, two troublesome traits which mean as you pointed out above that we aren't assuming the best of each other e.g I have started working three days a week freelance but some of that time has been spent building my portfolio back up, so not always earning three days money - he said earlier, it would be really nice if you'd being in some money, seemingly forgetting the fact that we'd all just been on a holiday abroad that I'd completely paid for from my earnings, having quietly saved for us. He feels I'm not warm enough with him too but I do feel cross a lot about parenting and how hard it is, especially when you throw in working , housework etc and although he does pull his weight, it still feels less as a dad than a mum would. I'm sure some of it's really old learned reactions and I am hoping to have some counselling soon to look at my defensiveness but equally I don't want to feel like I'm the bad guy and that it's all my fault when I know we are both reacting to things between us.

It's nice to hear that these things are sometimes cyclical in a relationship. This is my only really long term significant relationship so I'm sometimes unsure if they're all like this or not. I do stress that we're not right for each other though when so many other couples seem quite mellow and loving with each other. Or is that just all a smokescreen?

Not a smokescreen. Oh, you see people making an attempt, but you can spot unhappy marriages a mile off. Remember the Snowdon portrait of Chuck, Di, Wills and Harry? Ponies, picnic table and fixed grins? That was when the nation realised they were finished.

No, the mellowness comes with time. Young children are SO tiring, they turn up the contrast on your life, the bright moments get brighter but oh man the dark times get darker. I went for counselling after DS2, I couldn't argue - I thought, every time we argued, that it was all over, because of the awful things we'd said. Counselling helped me see that stuff that gets said in arguments is actually mostly untrue, whereas I was taking it as the ultimate truth. And my inability to argue was seriously pissing my DW off, cos she couldn't criticise me ever, without me going into one. After counselling, we could argue properly, kick personal stuff around and sort it out, without me thinking it was the end of the world.

So yeah, I'm a fan of counselling. Do it. Anything that gives you self-knowledge; sort of 'lessons in you'.

That's true disgrace to the Y chromosome, we do actually talk to each other well in a good day, and can have a laugh when we're not too fagged out, and still have regular how's yer father, when I do know couples that can't seem to manage either of those. Maybe I just had no idea how tough it would get after having kids and the impact of that on our relationship. But there are literally times when I just want to stick a pillow on his face when he's asleep!

Thanks oneeyedbloke. Good to hear counselling helped. I guess change starts from within!