Problem DiL

[Morag05204]

I wonder if any of you can advise me please. My DiL met my DS when she was nearly 40 and he didn't know she had never before been in any relationship. It transpired she had no contact with any of the male members of her family because she had a violent relationship with them. After 2 children she started abusing DS and accusing him of all sorts of things which were not true. She used to hit him and call the police and say he hit her! She has lied to everyone about me and we have lots of evidence we could use in court against her but don't want to do that as it would gain nothing and make her even worse, if that is possible. She has also hit me but denies it even though there was a witness. I am not sure if she is lying or whether she was in such a rage she doesn't remember. When we were on holiday last year she lied openly on social network about me saying things like Family Court when none off us has ever been in one. She did go to court without telling DS to get a court order to stop him going to the house but she lied under oath and he can prove it. DS has had legal advice which said that if he told the court about her lies and produced the proof she would get an automatic custodial sentence but he doesn't see any point in doing that. Revenge is not what he or any of us want.

The above is not all but enough to give you a flavour of what is going on.

What I would like to know is how to stop her lying to the children about DS and us. Not for our sake but for the sake of the children. The oldest one now asks about things she has said and sometimes we can show him the evidence they are not true. We never say she has lied but just explain whatever it is in a positive way but we can tell he knows his mother is not truthful and this really upsets us all. We don't want him to not trust his mother, we want him to respect her and feel she is truthful. We don't understand why she cannot simply accept things as they are and that the children should come first. She won't even go to parents' evening with DS and says they must have separate appointments. None of us would ever lie to the children nor say anything negative about her no matter how much she deserves it.

The children said that she tells them "Don't tell Daddy or you won't get any sweets". We heard this when I wouldn't give one of them any pudding because he hadn't even tried his dinner and he said "I'll tell Mummy" and I said "go ahead". Then they told us. This is very worrying as she must be ashamed of something if she doesn't want him to know and children should never be told not to tell, instead they should be taught that if anyone tells them not to tell their parents that person is doing something wrong and they should tell someone.

I appreciate you are only reading one part of the story but I would remind you that she doesn't get on with her father and brother and I have 2 other DiLs who I get on brilliantly with.

The short answer is you can't stop her lying to the children about either you or your DS as you are unable to police what she says to them or how she behaves when she is alone with them.

However, your current method of dealing with the situation 'to not make things worse' hasn't actually achieved that has it? By not facing the situation and dealing with it honestly whatever the consequences for your DIL legally, you have merely ensured that the children are being used as pawns in the middle of all this drama, being pulled from pillar to post, constantly having to question the truthfulness of their parents and having their loyalty to each parent tested. What a terrible outcome for the children involved and at the heart of this mess, the ones whose wellbeing should take precedence over any feelings of the adults.

How old are the dc and how often does your ds have contact with them? Do they stay overnight with him/you at weekends or during the week?

With regard to DS has had legal advice which said that if he told the court about her lies and produced the proof she would get an automatic custodial sentence, while it is possible to predict likely outcomes in certain cases, even in cases concerning perjury and contempt of court it cannot be assumed that a custodial sentence will be "automatic".

That said, if your ds acts on the legal advice he has been given it would not, to my mind, be a matter of "revenge" so much as clearing his name by setting the record straight which, it seems to me, he's best advised to do not only for himself but also for the dc.

It could be that this course of action will deter your dil from being less than truthful with the dc but, if he fails to act, her alleged lies in this matter will stand and, other than giving his verbal version of events, he will have no means of refuting them if she shows the court papers, which presumably contain details of a non-molestation order or similar granted to her against him, to the dc at some future date.

Thanks. No, not non-molestation, just preventing him going to the house. She said long and loud she was going to get a non-molestation order against me and then went quiet. Presumably she discovered she couldn't get one against someone she had no contact with!

If he did act on the court order and she went to prison how would that help the DGC?

Do you think that if we pursued her for slander and libel it would help? Wouldn't it just make her nastier?

As you can see we are all rather frightened by her behaviour as it is so totally outside our experience. We don't understand her motivation.

All advice appreciated

Slander and libel cases are extremely expensive. You could, however, ask a solicitor to write a letter advising her that her lies amount to defamation, which you could sue her for.

However, your description of this woman reminds me a great deal of the way my mother behaves, although she is still with my father. My mother has a psychotic personality disorder and receiving a letter like that would only make her worse. She would use it as evidence of her own "victim hood".

Really, your son should be throwing everything he can legally at her and getting residence of those children. Yes, go to court and prove she has lied on oath, get the children removed to your son's care. She may not be imprisoned if the judge deems it contrary to the well being of the children.

I wish my father had protected me and my siblings from our mother, then I wouldn't be the emotional wreck I still am today at 42, on the maximum possible dose of antidepressants for life and having suffered several severe depressive bouts and a major problem with alcohol.

If you want to protect your DGC, and by extension the relationship your ds has with them, you/he should get them out of the destructive environment they are currently in.

Speak to agencies involved in the welfare of children, take legal advice and act on the advice you are given.

Those children are being damaged by this situation and it will only get worse, the repercussions for them will last long into adulthood and may never be resolved. Read and re-read Doillus01's post and many of the other posts on here from children of parents who have subjected them to toxic behaviour and environments if you are in any doubt as to the impact this has. A huge number of now adults resent the fact that one parent, or other adults who were aware, did nothing to protect them.

Furthermore if you are frightened by her behaviour how do you think the children feel?

You and your ds are the adults here, you are meant to protect vulnerable children not stand back and let it continue because you don't want to make things worse for yourself.

what Dollius said

often the only thing that empowers people to leave is realising the very negative affect their behaviour has on the children

You son is basically in a very abusive relationship (as many people are on this board) and needs support to get away

some options for him are:

get a therapist that's experienced in EA (I can advise via PM how to find)
is there a charity for men in this situation (like women's aid)
KEEP A DIARY
start recording her tirades
KEEP A DIARY!!!
its also worth you writing down a testimonial,ion very simple terms ofr key dates and instances, ie the time she hit you

and if she fucking hits you again report her. Its a crime

He and you need to start a campaign to empower him to get away from this toxic woman

We don't understand her motivation

don't even try OP, its a waste of time and energy

Separate parents evening appointments is the norm sometimes when couples separate.

Thank you all so much. In this situation it becomes impossible to see it all objectively when you are so close.

DS is out of it, he ended up in hospital after three doctors said he was suffering from extreme stress. He was there for 6 weeks. Gradually he has improved but still can't cope in her company.

The Social Services are involved but because he never told the police when she hit him and tried to strangle him and she phoned the police and said he hit her when it was the other way round it is difficult to get them to believe him. After a while a SW will see through her and then she complains about them and they get a new one. This has happened three times! The latest one was so two faced and biased and said she was on my son's side which he thought was terrible and suspected she said the same to his wife. He mailed to say I was attending a meeting and she said he hadn't so I couldn't attend. He complained and sent her a copy of the email but she still denied receiving it. He made a formal complaint and was told she had left. He has now asked if they could have a male SW and one without religious affiliations as the last one had the same as her. It is a real minefield and I suspect it is a lot easier for them to side with the mother as that is less work.

How do we prove to anyone that she is a threat to the children when it is all done in private? I can understand that the SWs probably have to deal with all sorts of lies but surely they are trained to see through these things?

Maybe you can't help but it is helping me talking to you all and getting your feedback so thank you.

Dollius01 I am so sorry for what you have gone through and can understand how it has affected your whole life. DS and the rest of our family will do all we can to stop this happening to our DGCs.