Should we tell the dc about fil history?

[PenguinPyjamas]

Fil is marrying his OW.
Mil died a few years ago.
Fil had a very public affair with his OW for over thirty years.
The way it was carried out meant that it was very humiliating and damaging to dh (from age 12) and mil used to confide in dh about it even when he was young.
Dh is not NC with fil, but keeps his distance. He knows his fil's relationships are nothing to do with him, but chooses to stay out of it, and will not accept the ow as part of the family. I fully support dh, fil is a great big twat mysoginist who has form for saying nasty things about me, so reduced contact is great, and life is much more peaceful for it.
The woman gives us all dirty looks if we see her out and about, no idea why as we've never met her socially or even had the opportunity to speak to her, which has led to the dc not liking her without understanding why.
There is now gossip that they are to get married, but we haven't heard anything official. My older two (15 and 13) have heard this too.
I feel we should explain to them why dh and I have taken a step back, and why we wouldn't go to a wedding. I think they need to know because I don't want them growing up thinking that their grandfather shouldn't be with someone else because she's not their grandmother. I don't think it's realistic to expect someone to remain single and lonely if they have the choice.
I would explain in simple unemotional terms what happened, in an undramatic way, so they understand, but at the same time let them know that if they want a relationship with fil and his gf, that's fine and up to them, and if they wanted to attend the wedding, that's also fine, but they would understand why dh and I weren't there.
Full reconciliation between dh and fil isn't an option. I'm trying to find the best way to deal with this so the dc can understand and don't grow up with unrealistic expectations of relationships beyond death.
Sorry, this is long, but I would appreciate some opinions on this!

Have any of the children ever asked about this? Have they ever asked why 'some woman' they don't know gives you/them the stink eye? Do you believe that your children would ask you if they heard gossip or if wondered why their father doesn't speak to their grandfather?

I probably wouldn't have a 'sit down' with them if they aren't asking questions unless I felt that they wouldn't ask if they were curious. It's an 'adult issue' they don't need to concern themselves with right now and I don't see a need to thrust them into it. The time will come, I'm sure, that they either realize it on their own or will ask you about it.

A couple of things spring to mind, the first being, the answer to your post. I personally would just tell them straight. Just as you have here. Tell them that grandad had an affair that upset their late dgm while she was alive and you dh when he was young and that's why you are both not happy with the situation. Also state as you already have that it doesn't mean they can't have a relationship with their dgf and his new wife. It may also be a good time to discuss (in an age appropriate way) that no one should put up with a bad relationship. Why did your late mil not divorce him ? Why did fil not leave and marry his OW, ? 30 yrs is quite some love affair. Had he left then and there, instead of being portrayed as she is now, as some wicked witch - she would have been your dh stepmother for the vast majority of his life. I would use this as a time to discuss relationships in general and dare I say an old fashioned word..'morals'

Thank you.
Dh and fil do talk, but dh no longer seeks him out or invites him round. If fil rings up though, dh will be polite and keep him up to date with what the dc
When she gives us dirty looks they do ask, and dh and I have clammed up and not known what to say, so they assume she's just some woman who's taken against us.
I wish we'd explained at the time. They don't ask any more.

Marilyn - I believe fil was emotionally and financially abusive. She was told that if she left she would lose the dc, would be homeless and have nothing. He called all the shots, she had to pay her way if they went out.
She planned on leaving when her dc left home, but by the time that happened she'd had cancer which left her with problems that meant she could only work a few hours a week, so she felt she couldn't afford it.
She was very bitter by the end. I wish for everyone involved that they'd divorced and all would have had a chance to be happier than they were. Apart from fil - he was and is oblivious.

Fil didn't leave because ow was also married.
But a big part of me thinks he didn't leave because he couldn't let go of the control he had in the family home.
There are local rumours that one of the ow's dc was fathered by fil. He flatly denies it, but he's told so many lies no-one would be surprised if it turned out to be true.

The kids are old enough for the truth.

When she gives us dirty looks they do ask, and dh and I have clammed up and not known what to say, so they assume she's just some woman who's taken against us. I wish we'd explained at the time. They don't ask any more.

So in some way, they have noticed. They probably aren't asking anymore because they believe you won't answer. I'd say if/when an engagement/wedding is announced or the invite comes & they realize it's the same woman they'll also be curious and may or may not ask again.

I'm revising my answer. I think you need to tell them. If you can find a 'lead off' (FiL calling, seeing OW on the street) so much the better.

What does your DH think?

They know she's his girlfriend, and she stays at his house (we live in the same village), but if we see her out she will give us looks.
They don't ask questions but they will call her that woman, which is something we should have tackled straight away, because we've let her become the nasty witch to them without any justification, which we know was wrong.
Dh doesn't know that I want them to know. He prefers to stick his head in the sand and forget about it.
I feel it's important for them to know for the reasons Marilyn stated. I want them to grow up understanding that actions can have far reaching consequences, and that having an affair is wrong and affects everyone in the family. They are adult issues, but I feel the dc need to know about certain things so they can learn to deal with adult issues when they are adults.

I will talk to dh later, but wanted to get some opinions first.

I admit I have mixed feelings. I understand how you feel, BUT it is your DH's 'situation'. His father, his history iyswim. To a certain extent, his decision. I know I'd feel a sense of betrayal if my spouse insisted on telling our children 'my story' (as it were) against my wishes. Honestly, if you're in a small village, it's bound to come out at some point, especially if there is a wedding invite or the (wrong and stupid) expectation from FiL that DH should accept the OW once they are married.

The children can grow up to learn the lessons you mention without knowing about his father's sins. Most of us have learned morality and the effects of infidelity without having parents who've indulged in a long time affair which negatively affected their spouse and child(ren).

Talk to DH, explain your reasons. Use this thread if you think it will help. Remind him that he can bury his head all he wants, but the truth will out in the long run and it's whether or not both of you want to head it off in advance, or just do damage control when it comes out. But I honestly feel that it should be his decision whether or not to tell the children.

Yes you're right, it's up to him completely.
I suppose what I'm worried about is the dc growing up thinking that anyone having a relationship after their spouse has died is being disloyal, and I think by not being honest here we're reinforcing this attitude.
But yes, it will be entirely his decision.

I can understand why your late mil settled for the 'situation ' however the laws on division of assets of divorced persons changed many many years ago, so 'putting up with' was not really an issue. Your mil may have been financially abused but at some point someone would have told her her 'rights' and she chose to do nothing. It's not fair and it's hard but that is the way it is. Your mil should have divorced him, got half and moved on. But she didn't, instead she decided to push the angst on to her son. It sounds to me that both fil and ow should be together. 30 years is longer than most marriages. They weren't together because of misplaced 'loyalty' and 'obligation ' . I would say good luck to them both. Shit happens. Move on. She gives you the evil eye because you have made it clear that you dislike her. Try another tack. Ask to meet her, you may find that she is actually an ok person who got stuck in a situation she didn't know how to get out of.

She gave me dirty looks before I even knew who she was, so it wasn't that I made any dislike clear.

I do agree that they're obviously meant for each other if they've lasted that long, but given the history, both hearing from dh and from friends of the family, I'd rather not meet her.

Yes mil should have divorced him, and she definitely shouldn't have confided in dh.
He's not a nice man though and I'm pretty sure she was scared of any consequences from standing up to him.

Dh has moved on by not stressing about the situation, accepting it for what it was and making sure we don't make the same mistakes with our dc, and also by making the decision not to be a part of their lives. He didn't have a happy childhood at all, but isn't letting it affect him now.

Many women stay in terrible marriages for a variety of reasons, it's not for me to judge. Your MiL had reasons that were good enough for her. And you're right, she didn't protect her son from the fallout the way she should have.

Just have that talk with him. I hope he decides that it's better to talk to the children. I'm not sure if you have more than the 13 and 15 year olds or the ages if you do, but if you do have younger DC you may want to have more than one conversation. What is suitable for the two elder DC may not be suitable for much younger DC. The same goes for questions the teens may ask. They're old enough to understand sex, infidelity, and emotional abuse. A 7 or 9 year old may only understand (or need to know) that 'Granddad had a girlfriend when Granny was still alive. That girlfriend was that lady who gives us the stink eye. That was very wrong of them and not nice to treat Granny that way'. Or words to that effect.

I feel for your husband, getting dragged into all that at 12. He must be a wonderful guy, to be able to be polite to his father despite everything! It is obvious who the better man is.

The 15 and 13 year olds can be told the truth in a candid way, as you've told it to us. Not sure about the younger ones, it depends on their ages. I probably wouldn't tell an under-8 anything much yet.

I also think it is entirely reasonable to explain the dgf/ow situation to them. However, in your OP you acknowledge that someone shouldn't be expected to remain lonely and alone, but clearly have big objections to fil seeking to concrete the relationship with OW.
Mil has been gone for years, OW has been with him for more than 30, so presumably (whatever rights/wrongs of being OW) loves him and he her. If I was involving my children I would find it very hard to explain to my children why I objected to them marrying. The only reasons seem to be underlying bitterness and inability to let go of past hurts, and this is not something I would want my children to think was ok.
Sorry.

I think I'd wait to see if the rumoured marriage is official and whether or not any of your family are invited and then I'd mull over how to proceed from there?

Notenjoy you may technically have the 'high ground', but I don't think I'd be inclined to 'forgive and forget' two people who made both my and my mother's life a misery for 30 odd years. It's an unfortunate trend today to just allow people to get away with shite because they know they'll get away with it because we 'must let go of the past'. Maybe if more people took a stand and said "No, I will NOT condone your behaviour and you do NOT deserve a place in my life" other people would think twice about the consequences their actions.

My dh has had a similarly dysfunctional child/teenhood and fucked up relationships with a parent. Like your dh he chooses to leave the subject alone and finds it very difficult to discuss openly but has never actually said he wants it to be kept secret.

I've dealt with it by telling our dcs bits along the way in a sort of age appropriate manner as it crops up. I'm so glad we did tell them, as now they are teens they have so much deeper understanding both of their dad and of the funny goings on in his family.

Not sure if this is helpful but a similar thing happened with my grandparents and my dad. In their case they did divorce and Grandad married the OW. In the end he was married to her for longer than he was married to my grandmother though I only met her twice. It all happened when I was a baby and my dad, who is the oldest child, was 24. His younger siblings were teenagers. I have found out now that it was a very public divorce. Both my grandparents were public figures and their divorce was in the newspapers. They were catholic so it was a VERY big deal for my grandmother to divorce and she never made her peace with it. She had a breakdown afterwards and took time to recover.
Anyway,I never really knew anything! My dad continued to have a relationship with his dad though my auntie didn't and I just accepted that without questioning why. I didn't even know Grandad had remarried until I was older. I wish I'd known a bit more as I think I would have had more sympathy for my grandmother. On the other hand I adored my grandad and I would have missed out on that relationship perhaps.

None of which is particularly helpful for you! I think I would tell them just enough to help them understand but not so much that it confuses them or affects relationships they've made themselves.

I would definitely tell them, in an age-appropriate way. They will definitely realis there is something up - if not right now, then certainly in the future. They will realise that you don't want to talk about it and they will wonder why not, and possibly fill in the gaps themselves, inaccurately. Far far better to tell them now your version of events, so that it's not some family secret.

My experience is my dad having an emotional and possibly physical affair when I was a teen (whilst still with my DMum), this all coming to a head whilst I was a long way away in a foreign country on a gap year (aged 18), and both my parents being extremely cagey about what was going on, to the extent that it was years later that I put together most of the pieces. Although I don't really have all the pieces even now (in my 30s!), I can't ask my mum about it (because she still finds it too upsetting), and no way I would ask my dad.

Fortunately they are divorced (and he is married to the OW), but I still resent that out of some misguided sense of protecting me, neither of them actually told me anything about what was happening. Actually, I think my dad just opted out of even thinking about how to handle the situation with me and my DSis, but my mum certainly would have thought she was protecting me. And she was dealing with her own feelings about the matter.

I know your situation is different, but keeping some kind of secret is surely not the answer here.

I think you should tell them in a casual and non emotional way. If you live in a small village, people talk, and their DC repeat - and its likely your DC will hear all sorts of stories, plus they may even meet the ow DC as they get older - and hear more stuff. There is already gossip, about a wedding? And fatherhood rumours - your DC need some stock answers and know they can come to you.

It all sounds impossible to be a blended family with such history, and your dh of course feels loyal to his DM. It sounds odd she is glaring at you though - but perhaps she doesn't really know what else to do and is being like that in case you're the sort to approach her and shout in the street. You don't sound it though!

Of course OP should tell them, they are teenagers, they should be involved and fully informed. OP and her DH have made decisions that are affecting the kids, they deserve to know why. IT's not like they are toddlers who need protecting.

My granddad had a long affair when with my grandmother none of his 5 kids spoke to him for a long time. Slowly bridges were built. My grandad never married ow as my nan refused to divorce and he respected that. My parents never told me about grandad until I was around 14/15. I liked my grandad and his partner and when old enough his behaviour didn't appear evil. I thought he was a twat but didn't affect my feelings towards him. I think at the right age it's fine to explain why you feel the way you do to your kids