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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

So what is more important....children being brought up by 2 parents, or my happiness

46 replies

Massivelyconfused · 08/10/2015 18:41

This has obviously probably been discussed thousands of times on MN but I am so messed up and just need to get this out. DH has just gone out after our thousandth argument in the last few months and it has ended with us saying it's over and will see a lawyer tomorrow. Long story short, I am unhappy and dream of being on my own with my DC (4 and 6). But boys happy with their dad. Do I go for it or stick with an unhappy marriage? What is more important?

OP posts:
TooSaasy · 08/10/2015 21:10

Stopfuckingshoutingatme (cool name)

I don't read it as having a pop at me, not at all. Truth is I wasn't 100% happy in my marriage. Not at all. We had just started marriage counselling. I thought we were both prepared to work at it when I found stuff out.

But here's the thing. Once DC's are involved I think everyone owes them that much. There are so many resources out there. At least try. If the other party is a twunt/ doesn't attend etc etc. then at least you've tried.

All I'm saying is this. Had I ended my marriage because I wasn't happy. And then saw the impact on my DC's. I would have been back pedalling pretty damn quickly

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 08/10/2015 21:31

I hear you - the kids come first

It's so hard !!!! You stay - you give them a shit life scarred by parents fighting

You split - you break their little hearts

Lose lose it feels Confused

TooSaasy · 08/10/2015 21:34

Couldn't agree more. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Not saying it's easy. But then neither route is.

alicemalice · 08/10/2015 21:36

It's not always harder as a single parent. Sorry to hear it's been shit, too sassy, but not everyone's situation works out the same. It was a big adjustment for sure but now it's easier and calmer.

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 08/10/2015 21:40

Wine please !

I do appreciate that sassy is so honest

I read a lot of posters saying "I left him and I am so much happier' and it surprises me - as whilst being freed from the yoke of him appeals I can't help only envisage a new level of misery

Anyway sorry OP - a lot of opinions for you to digest for sure Confused

alicemalice · 08/10/2015 21:44

I also think when people split is going to affect what they have to say.

It's really hard in the beginning, no doubt. Down the line, everything's settled down a bit more and you have more perspective on it.

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 08/10/2015 21:45

How long did it take Alice ? To get semi normal and peaceful

alicemalice · 08/10/2015 21:50

Think it depends. For me, I'd say after 12 months I started to get the hang of it. You find ways to make things easier for yourself. I got an au pair and that's helps massively.

You make new friends who are also divorced. You get a feeling of pride in providing everything yourself. I won't say it was easy but I feel a peace of mind now that I didn't have when I was conflicted in the relationship.

Although I'm sure at times DD wishes we were back together, our house itself is a more pleasant place to be, I think. She seems calmer and happy.

newnamesamegame · 08/10/2015 22:00

For what it's worth, six months into being a single parent, I don't think its harder at all. I'm poorer, and there are some logistical challenges, but I'm much much happier, I wish I'd done it two years earlier than I did.

Obviously you owe it to your children to give it a really serious try before you throw in the towel.

But its not a question of selfishness = leaving vs self-sacrifice = staying.

Staying in an unhappy marriage "for the children" is ultimately not in anyone's interests, least of all the children. Children are not stupid, and they pick up on unhappiness and discomfort. No child will thank its mother for martyring herself on the altar of the family.

My DD has adapted remarkably well to our split. She occasionally cries that she wants daddy and she misses him. But she sees him 3/4 times a week and is basically happy with the arrangement. I'm not going to claim that it won't affect her, because clearly I don't know what will happen down the road, if and when one of us meets someone else.

But its been a revelation to me how much easier things are, and how much happier I am on my own.

I'm not going to tell you to leave your marriage unless you are sure you're ready to.

But please remember its not an either/or scenario where you have to make a choice between your children's happiness and your happiness. Soldiering on at all costs in order to have two unhappy parents under the same roof is not creating a family, its creating resentment and misery.

TooSaasy · 09/10/2015 08:03

Alice I totally agree with you.
How far down the path of separation/ divorce you are will inevitably influence the view anyone has on impact to DC's.

Circa 7 weeks post split the DC's are far more settled than they were in the first few weeks. And I'm sure that in a year everyone will have adjusted even more. That's not to say that they aren't still incredibly sad which is totally understandable.

At no point do I think staying in a miserable marriage is good for the kids. Or what anyone should do. But I do utterly believe that everyone owes it to their DC's to try all the options before walking away. As parents, we are the centre of their world and when that world divides, there are no two ways about it, it does impact the children.

Time allows all to adjust and settle.

Hoppinggreen · 09/10/2015 09:27

My parents stayed together " for the children". It was awful, plus I get to feel guilty every time my mum reminds me that she could have had a much better life if she had left him before I grew up and left home rather than waiting.
Kids need to grow up in a happy house with a positive example of what a loving relationship looks like.

hampsterdam · 09/10/2015 10:55

Not read the whole thread but wanted to share my experience. I left my ex when my ds was a baby because we were fighting all the time and making each other miserable. Maybe it was easier because he was young and I knew he wouldn't remember his mum and dad together bit it was a tough decision and I battled with all the questions you are now asking yourself.
It was the right decision for me and my son who is happy healthy and thriving at school, I'm happy, I'm married to a wonderful man who is a fantastic step dad, my ex is also a better dad now after some ups and downs and has a great relation ship with ds who adores him.
Being a single parent wasn't easy bit not really harder than staying in a shit relationship that was destroying us both.

sparkle10 · 09/10/2015 11:14

My daughter was 14 when we split and she said to me a couple of years later that she was really glad when we split up.
Apart from the ickky end to our relationship, we didn't argue, there was no atmospheres or anything but she said she could tell I wasn't happy with him anymore.
She said it was the best thing I ever did leaving him as she could tell how much happier I was and that was pretty much instant.

GooseyLoosey · 09/10/2015 11:27

My parents staid together for me and argued almost every day of my childhood. Those days that they did not argue stand out as amazing golden days.

I would almost certainly have been better off had they not been together. I think I would have functioned better in some ways as an adult too.

My mother has been the happiest she has ever been in her life since she finally got divorced from my father when I was about 18.

TheImminentGin · 09/10/2015 11:28

My experience has been that my children are in no way heartbroken. They are with their father 3 days out of seven. They find the logistics of exchanging all of the things they want from house to house annoying but only the youngest has expressed any upset and that was a very mild comment that they felt sad saying goodbye to daddy on a Monday and sad saying goodbye to mummy on a Friday. Then went off and started playing. Children get upset going to nursery, are sad saying goodbye to friends, miss dead pets. These are all life experiences, we experience them, we deal with them, we are helped to deal with them, we are given role models who we see dealing with them and we carry on.
Separation and divorce can harm children but they don't have to.
I have had conversations with my children about whether you should stay with someone you no longer love and they unanimously were against it. They can understand that people fall out of love. They will have friends and relatives who have separated parents and see them still having good relationships with both parents, see them being happy and not only coping but just being, in a totally normal way.
For myself, yes I have given up greater financial security but I am happier.

justwondering72 · 09/10/2015 11:56

I think it's about a lot more than your happiness.

Children learn from what they see every day. So if they are living in an unhappy or abusive house, that's what they grow up to see as normal. If they see their father abusing their mother - verbally, physically, emotionally, whatever - that's what they grow up to believe is the normal way for men and daddies to behave. If they see their mother martyring herself, apologising constantly, walking on eggshells, or enabling abusive behaviour - that's what they grow up to believe is a normal way for women and mummies to behave.

I have a friend whose marriage is dead in the water. She knows it. Her OH is extremely old-fashioned (abusive) - he controls the finances, she has no idea what money they have coming in or out, how the bills are to be paid, what his plans are for retirement and whether they include her. He tells her nothing about his plans for the future, or for the present. She has two daughters, and is absolutely convinced that it's better for them to stay together for the sake of the children, not least because they have a comfortable life. She is so unhappy but will not ever consider the possibility of leaving him. She cannot see that she is teaching her daughters every day that it's okay to live like this, to be treated like this by a man, to be made to feel so small and to have no power.To put up and shut up.

Only you know the ins and outs of your home life, and what lessons you are teaching your children.

WorkingClassHeroine · 09/10/2015 12:07

I am the child of divorced parents. There was no abuse, but a lot of sniping, arguments and all the general unpleasantness of two people flogging their dead horse of a relationship.

My mum and dad split first when I was 7, attempted a reconciliation and then divorced when I was 9.

Once the dust had settled (didn't take long as it was a mutually agreed, very 'civilised' divorce), my parents got on so much better: When my dad would come to pick me up at the weekends, he and my mum could actually have a cup of tea and a chat - no snarky comments or all the other bullshit.

I think that unhappy couples can try all they might to stay together 'for the sake of the children', but sooner or later the cracks will begin to appear. I absolutely promise you that the children in these situations will always pick up on the atmosphere and can become anxious people. They can also replicate their parents' dysfunctional relationship when they become adults.

PoundingTheStreets · 09/10/2015 12:24

When it comes to what's best for the children, I think it's important to realise that quality of parenting is what counts, not number of, gender of, or relationship status of. A good single parent can create a more nurturing, stable and loving family environment than two warring parents. Good families can come in all shapes and sizes - traditional nuclear, two same-sex parents, a single parent, separated but amicably co-parenting... Quality of parenting is what counts.

The reason the trite old comment of 'Happy mum = happy child' came about is because there's a lot of truth in it - a desperately unhappy parent or a dysfunctional family dynamic can cause a lot of difficulty for a child. Some selfish people may interpret that to mean they can do whatever they want without a thought for their children, because as long as they're happy the children will be too, but I think they're a minority.

I believe strongly that staying in a relationship that is unhealthy or desperately unhappy is bad for children. Far better to separate IMO. However, at the same time, it's important to recognise that this usually comes with significant change for the child and this must be acknowledged and worked with, not glossed over. A child must be allowed to express his/her doubts, fears and grief without fear of guilt or being met with falsely cheery platitudes. A significant drop in the standard of living is also difficult for a child to live with and for a child who doesn't consciously understand how toxic his parents relationship may have been, it can be difficult to feel that a new way of living is 'better'. All this needs to be confronted.

What determines how well a child recovers from separation of the parents is the quality of the relationship with the primary caregiver first and foremost, and the relationship with both parents overall. Children can and do recover and often will be better off long term because the parents separated.

It is easier to separate these days and more people are doing it. We see this as failure and there is lots of talk about making divorce harder. I wonder whether the rising divorce rate actually reflects a decreasing tolerance for bad behaviour in relationships. In the past people put up with abuse, infidelity, or simply being treated like a glorified domestic appliance/cash supply. It was kept hidden behind closed doors. Now they don't and it's in the public arena. I don't see that as a bad thing personally. That the children of parents who separate tend to have less good outcomes than those who stay together is IMO a reflection of the bad behaviour expressed by those parents, not the fact that they separated. In fact, separation may be the first step towards fixing things; it's just in many cases the damage has already been done. I think if the parents stayed together, the only difference between the outcomes of those children would be the fact that the parents were still together - you'd still have the same poorer outcomes. Maybe, as more and more parents refuse to tolerate this behaviour, we will eventually reach a point where people improve their behaviour in their interpersonal relationships or they will face being perpetually alone. Maybe this period in history is part of the transition.

FWIW, there is also a lot of separated parents who buck the trend, enough certainly to suggest that it isn't separation itself that;s causing the problem, merely the factors that come with it. Poverty is the biggest one and when income and the mother's educational attainment is factored into these studies, it is interesting to find that there is no difference between the outcomes of children from single parent families and two-parent families.

WorkingClassHeroine · 09/10/2015 12:37

Just to add, I can well remember the gnawing, anxious feeling I used to have (remember, I said I was just 7 when they first split, so I was very young when I was absorbing all the hurt feeling in the house in the years leading up to the split). It was horrible.

My sister (from mum's first marriage so not my dad's child) was living with us. She's 11 years older than me, and I can vividly remember her noticing that an argument was brewing and she would offer to take me out, or tell me to go up to our room to play. She was trying to protect me, even though I was her annoying kid sister.

Massivelyconfused · 09/10/2015 12:39

Thanks everyone have just come back online and seen all your replies, I'll read them all as soon as I can.

OP posts:
Massivelyconfused · 09/10/2015 13:01

TooSaasy appallingly selfish is pretty harsh, I haven't actually done anything, I am simply considering my hugely difficult options and asked for people's opinions. I have tried for 2 years so far to address the problems in our marriage, with not much if any compromise from DH. Counselling has been suggested and dismissed. Believe me, the happiness of my children is infinitely more important than my own. And maybe, just maybe this could be achieved by developing a new life with access to their father.

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