Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Am I the abusive one?

18 replies

sparkleup · 07/10/2015 19:08

Long time poster, name change for obvious reasons.

I had a friend who until recently I thought we had a decent friendship. She would ask me advice and I'd give it, and she'd either ignore it or take it. All fine.

Then it suddenly turned into her asking advice and if it wasn't what she'd want to hear she would blank me. Then come back apologising that she should have listened to me first time etc etc. She has always claimed her family and exes have been abusive and I've always felt sorry for her, so I never thought too much of it. She told me she appreciated my honesty, so things continued as they were.

Eventually she would ask me the same thing over and over and slag people off to me. In the end I asked her to stop as it was stressing me out, and I've been ill and don't need that. She would say how horrible I must think she is, etc. I said no, I appreciate she needed someone to vent at but I can't keep raking over the same things - my views aren't going to change on certain things and the hate was just cycling around. She'd lay off and then a few weeks later and she would start again.

Recently I've caught her out in something illegal (as far as I'm willing to go on that). I told her, in my normal honest way I thought she appreciated, that it was stupid etc. And eventually I asked her to stop talking to me about it. A few days would pass and something would crop up again and the pattern again repeated, with the previous things I'd asked her to stop dragging me into.

We've argued, a lot. A lot centred around her horrible attitude to other people - she rarely said anything nice about anyone even when they did her massive favours. I've said some things that were harsh at times (rarely I will add, but I'm not showered in glory), which I've always apologised for afterwards. Generally we have gotten along fine except for when she keeps repeating the things she knows upsets me.

So now we've had our last argument. I discovered she was lying to cover the fact she was still engaging in illegal behaviour. She denied it, then denied her lies and finally when she realised I wasn't falling for it said it was all down to me and how I react, and that I'm too toxic and abusive to be friends with - she can't talk to me about anything because she doesn't know when I'm going to go mad.

Tbh, I'd largely come to that conclusion about her anyway and I'm not mourning her loss. But the accusation has me troubled. Yes, I was always honest with her even when I didn't agree (not brutally mind you). And yes, I always reacted when she did something she knew upset me. No, I didn't go off on one about anything, and I explained on multiple occasions what upset me and begged her to stop.

What worries me most though is that its the line a lot of abusers use isn't it? It was their fault, they pushed my buttons. And essentially that it what I'm saying. I feel like I've fallen into a trap because that's what everyone else has been accused of, but ultimately I don't want to abuse anyone and what if that is what I've done. Can you abuse someone without realising it? If so, what can I do to make sure I don't do this again?

Major thanks if you've gotten this far and read it all

OP posts:
somewhatavoidant · 07/10/2015 19:55

Hi sparkleup, sorry for your troubles. Your friend's behaviour rang eerily familiar when I read your post. I was very close to my ex friend for 25 years or more when we fell out in spectacular style. She said the most hurtful things to me and used the term "toxic friendship" several times. It was more upsetting than any break up I had ever experienced. As the years have passed, I've really examined my behaviour and I still think I always acted with her best interests at heart. I wasn't totally without fault either but I also came to realise with a little distance, how destructive her behaviour could be. She was also spitefully mean about others even our closest friends. Because I was always the closest one, I couldn't really see her for who she turned out to be. It still saddens me when I think of her but I've come to terms with it. If your conscience is clear, you know you were not abusive. Be at peace with yourself and let her steer her own inevitable course without your advice and friendship. I think you might be better off, as sad as it is.

MatrixReloaded · 07/10/2015 20:44

Abusers don't even consider the fact they could be abusive. Nothing in your post suggest you've been abusive. However your friend has been abusive and is projecting that on to you.

Don't take it on. Don't internalize anything an abuser says to you .

sparkleup · 07/10/2015 21:38

Thank you both.

somewhat Its sad to know I'm not alone, but comforting too. Sorry it hapened to you too. I have found the last few weeks very hurtful, though weirdly now I know its the end I'm peaceful. I know I wasn't perfect, I know I can be abrasive, but I genuinely was trying to steer her out of trouble. Did your friend ever attempt to lure you back or was there a final argument and that was it? I suspect this was our final argument but I worry she will try contacting me or people close to me.

matrix I think my problem is I'm so bought into her line of being abused by others that its playing with my head. I am also questioning everything she ever told me about other people.

I have a nagging suspicion that after I found out about the illegal thing first time I used up my usefulness and she's found someone else to leech to. In the last few weeks she's changed how she dealt with me, all twisting around to how toxic I am. She has a history of changing her behaviour when new people enter into her life so I hadn't questioned it. But I think she was trying to provoke a reaction to show how horrible I am. I'm sad to say eventually I bit. If I'm right that poor person is going to need all the luck in the world.

The best thing that has happened is DH and I have improved our relationship enormously. DH realised that I don't need my feelings spared, and that dishonesty hurts me more than anything he may say that might upset me. And conversely I've agreed that I'll bring any problems I have with him rather than let them build up. Bless DH though, he really didn't understand that until this kicked off with now ex friend. Maybe all things really do happen for a reason.

OP posts:
Thelushinthepub · 07/10/2015 21:41

I recognise a lot of the relationship you have in my Best friend.

I don't think it's abusive. I do think you are getting a kick out of advising her on her car crash life and that it probably makes you deep down, feel quite superior and good about yourself
It's taken me 10years of the situation you describe to realise this.

sparkleup · 07/10/2015 21:53

lush I really don't get a kick. In fact I honestly preferred the times when we just chat about nothing in general. I asked her to keep it this way several times. I'd never describe her life as car crash either, whether I now wonder if it was true or not. I certainly don't feel superior, I have my own issues and problems.

OP posts:
Offred · 07/10/2015 22:10

What was your childhood like?

TBH I think you've fallen into a parent-troubled child dynamic with this friend which is something I tend to do too.

When talking through my childhood (abusive) recently I came to the realisation that I am gravitating towards these people who need to be saved because I'm trying to love the child I was. It's dysfunctional for both parties. What you say about your friend resonates with me and the breakdown of the friendship perfectly emulates a stroppy teenager sacking off their parents IMO.

Offred · 07/10/2015 22:12

I don't like the drama or the pressure of such intense responsibility for other people either but I ALWAYS seem to end up in this type of friendship. It is not a conscious choice I'm making.

sparkleup · 07/10/2015 22:32

offred I was bullied a lot as a child. You may be right, maybe I'm trying to protect and coddle my former self, I really don't like people I love being hurt. The dynamic was very wrong, hence the end of it I suppose. And truthfully, I think you're right when you say dysfunctional for both of us.

OP posts:
Offred · 07/10/2015 22:37

To be clear, and I say this as much to myself as to you, it's dysfunctional for you because the person who needs that love and care from you is really you.

I've realised that but it's hard to translate into reality.

sparkleup · 07/10/2015 22:49

offred As soon as I read your first post I think I realised that too (about myself - not you obviously!). If only the practical was as easy as the theory. I hope we both figure it out.

OP posts:
Offred · 07/10/2015 23:06

Yeah, I'm practising repeating it to remind myself!

MatrixReloaded · 07/10/2015 23:35

Op you might find this helpful.

www.lynneforrest.com/articles/2008/06/the-faces-of-victim/

sparkleup · 08/10/2015 07:27

matrix that's awesome. thank you. I recognise so much in that. I can honestly see where the cycles have happened, even my becoming a perpetrator.

Authen­tic helpers act with­out expec­ta­tions for rec­i­p­ro­ca­tion. They empower rather than dis­able those they serve. What they do will be done to encour­age self-responsibility, rather than pro­mote depen­dency. True Sup­port­ers believe that the other can han­dle their own busi­ness. They believe that every­one has the right to make mis­takes and learn through some­times hard con­se­quences. They trust the other has what it takes to see them­selves through times of dif­fi­culty with­out they, as Res­cuers, need­ing to “save” them.

I think that is my rescuer side though! I don't need the validation of a payback from people, but I encourage them to stand on their own two feet and take responsibility etc. My validation is probably knowing I got someone to see they were worthy. And if I come across someone who claims to be incapable without me, I get suckered in until eventually it drains me badly and I tell them to either deal with it or stop talking to me about it - rescuer to victim to perpetrator.

I can also see some of this with some issues DH and I are working at. We made a good step the last few nights at talking through some things, and trying to encourage behaviour we will both find more positive. So fingers crossed there at least!

OP posts:
sparkleup · 09/10/2015 11:10

matrix and offred
Just another quick note to say thank you so much for giving me the tools to have a good look at myself and my role in this. My DH also sends his thanks because after our (mine and DH's) last chat I had a day that would normally deflate me but he came home to find me happy and laughing about things - its been ages since he's seen me like that. Whilst I know my behaviour wasn't beyond reproach I am fairly happy I wasn't abusive and not having her contact me for a few days has meant I've come down in stress. I don't think I realised how her negativity was affecting me, I'm not generally the most positive person anyway but I try hard to find the good in things. I've released my need to feel responsible for her and though I worry she may try to contact me again, I don't think I'm going to fall for it. It won't be productive for either of us.

OP posts:
HellKitty · 09/10/2015 11:14

Sparkle. Just remember all the times she was bad mouthing people. She probably bad mouthed you to them too. You can definitely do without that kind of stress and negativity in your life.

I've cut people loose before, it's not easy and you do feel guilty but it's the only thing that works.

Offred · 09/10/2015 12:27

Oh that's glad news! :)

MatrixReloaded · 09/10/2015 13:22

Glad to hear you're feeling better about things. I tend to fall into the role of rescuing and that means I sometimes attract victims. I've had to let a similar friendship go which was causing me a lot of stress.

The author of that article also wrote a book called guiding principles for life which I've found incredibly helpful.

sparkleup · 09/10/2015 18:03

hell It took me a stupidly long time to realise that. Well it was only when she was getting nastier and nastier about people I realised, it started out so small I didn't notice to begin with. I've also realised now that there are some people she rarely spoke about and, in the case of one mutual friend at least, its probably because there's nothing bad to say about them (and god forbid she say something nice about someone).

Its helped a lot that when I realised I was falling into being a rescuer to her victim that I needed to literally say out loud that I was relinquishing responsibility for her. When DH pointed out how much happier I already seemed I said something that I had clearly been suppressing for some time:
I've remained friends with her because I felt obligated too, but now know I'm not I... well I don't actually like her. At all.
No wonder it all ended so badly Shock

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page