Situation with mil-toxic?

[Bingolala]

Name change.
Recently posted about this. In a nutshell. Mil and sil very close relationship. 18 months ago me and oh went nc with his dsis she had basically ignored our dd for first year of her life then went mad at oh for not being there for his dn's since having his own child/ instead of discussing it she was nasty towards us at gathering snide comments etc, on social media and then shouting at oh- texting nasty msgs you get the drift.
Anyway we decided enough was enough and cut her out. Mil was not happy with this and for the last 18 months made comments about patching things up and that we should apologise to dsis (even though she is blatantly the one in the wrong to rest of family.
Fast forward to recent times when we told mil that we wouldn't have dsis at our wedding mil went mad shouting at me even though I'm seven months pregnant, shouting at oh all in front of our dd. when we told her to calm down she wished that she was dead for all the stress we are causing her. Just a torrent of manipulation and nastiness ie she wouldn't come to the wedding unless sis invited- all until we all but cancelled the wedding- I was in bits. :(
She called oh a couple days later and he told her she shouldn't have shouted at me like that in general but esp when I'm pregnant- she said she would call and apologise, he said leave it for a couple days as bingo really stressed out about it all.
I didn't receive apology.

We decided that we would go ahead with wedding on our terms- she did come and she completely ignored me on the day and made a few choice comments before leaving. Luckily we still had a nice day anyway.
Since then I've told dh that I can't be around her ATM its too raw and feel like she treats me like shit- if he wants to see her fine but I can't right now.
She has asked why Im avoiding her dh said I was still upset with the things she said before wedding and that she should have apologised- she said she wasn't going to be told when she could and couldn't apologise so she had decided not to do it at all.
Does this all sound like toxic controlling behaviour to you? It seems black and white to me but need detached responses.

sorry - stiff fingers for typing hope that made sense

Agreed that boundaries are essential. Also, keep your distance.

If your MIL was reasonable, she'd have accepted that she behaved badly and she'd have accepted that you maybe needed a bit of time to calm down and -then- talk. That's pretty common and normal. Seems like everything has to be on her terms, and only her terms, little ability to compromise. Behaving like that on your wedding day is bloody awful behaviour.

I've gone NC with two members of my families with serious MH problems and very low contact with a 3rd, who doesn't have MH problems but has a very controlling wife that he wants to please.

None of these decisions were made easily and they are all bittersweet but I will say that my everyday life is infinitely better for not being The One In The Wrong all the time.

It really, really hurts to not be in touch with family, but nothing is worth being treated like dirt for.

I do feel aggrieved that I'm painted as the 'bad guy' as this continues

Boundaries are all very well but sometimes in enforcing them we cause pain to others. It may be entirely right for us that we are enforcing them. However if in turn we are causing others pain we may well be the bad guys to onlookers.

Ultimately it's about working out what you personally can live with

I've gone NC with two members of my families with serious MH problems

DM can be difficult. My brother has totally limited contact to perhaps once a month less at bad points. Good for him.

However it just means there are less people to help pull together when needed and his children don't see the wonderful bits. I do judge him for throwing the rest of us under the bus to save himself and for causing a split in the family that we paper over at family occasions.

I think the whole NC thing on mumsnet is dealt with very black and white when rarely it is.

I can see where you are coming from Toffee

I'd actually agree, toffee.

I'm afraid that in the case of the first relative, now deceased, I was not willing to be attacked physically and verbally over and over. Think hands round neck, knife-waving, trying to push people off ladders.

The other one is much less dramatic, but she turned against me over an entirely imaginary slight. Provably imaginary, fortunately; it does help to have solid proof when it comes to the "he says, she says" thing. After 6 months of quite appalling emails from her, I said that I didn't want to hear from her again until she was willing to discuss things in an adult manner. Still waiting!

In the case of the third relative, I'd love to have a closer relationship. Unfortunately like everyone else in his first family, and almost all his friends, he's allowed them to be edged out by his wife. He says really quite unpleasant things about people now, I'm fairly sure that it's because he actually feels guilty and is in some way trying to make it -our- fault, because he wants to feel justified. It's pretty unpleasant to be on the receiving end of it though.

For the OP I can really see that she might have come to the end of her patience though, and I said that firm boundaries may be the way to go rather imo.

But I'm afraid that life is too short to have someone in it who is actively making it really rather difficult over the long term by unreasonable expectations. Being on the receiving end of this kind of stuff drags you down much more than you realise.

Nc is so difficult isn't it :( with wider family events coming up we've just agreed between the two of us we won't go as it will be awkward at best and volatile at worse.
Just how I can avoid mil when there's a newborn baby in a few weeks I'm not sure I can and although Im annoyed with her I don't think she's done enough to stop her seeing the new baby so I'll have to suck it up soon won't I :(

You can kill with kindness.

Make it a choice. You have actively chosen than your DC will see the best if their nan. They will however understand that people aren't perfect sometimes get it wrong and they will see how you handle it when they do.

It's not perfect but it is an interesting alternative to non contact.

We will stick with nc with his sis that's way too far down the line now but his mum is staying civil for the most part.

I don't think she's done enough to stop her seeing the new baby so I'll have to suck it up soon won't I sad

You will feel all vulnerable with a newborn. Make sure your and DH boundaries are in place, with strategies of what to say if MIL steps out of line and consequences of what will happen if she is unpleasant to you.

Personally I don't think killing her with kindness wil work with her, she would see as a weakness. And in the long term, do you really want to DC to see you being bullied by her?

Terrible grammar there!

Thank you Rice Crispie and Toffeelatte. Really thoughtful and well argued points. It is always good to read a range of views which encourage properly considered responses. A refreshing change from some posts!

Well Op it looks like you've found away forward. As some of the other posters have suggested, keep boundaries in place - her responses up to this have been ill-considered. It's likely your mil will realise that she's overstepped. You and your dh can always reassess at a later date if you both still feel unhappy. She may yet apologise to you when she sees you with the new baby.

I'd also add that, for some, going no contact is a properly considered response. I'd really hate to think that someone would stop talking to another family member on a whim.