Is he a twunt or am I? So exhausted and confused...

[PhoebesFluffyCoat]

I've nc'd for this post. It's been a long time coming but I'm at the end of my tether and not sure if I'm going mad or perceiving things right. I'm not even sure if this is the right place to post due to other elements of the issue.

Anyway. It is regarding a male friend. We used to be a couple - it was on and off for about 18 months, and definitely off for the past six months or so. I think the reason it has remained 'off' is because I am less susceptible and more willing to stand up for myself.

It seemed like this was going well. I have got much better at remaining calm when he is pressing all my buttons and being utterly unreasonable, and explaining to him calmly. Actually his will concede the point (after the fifty millionth time of navigating all his attempts at derailment). But it's exhausting! He also has a drink issue which has flared up again recently and I have to walk off when he is drinking because he gets more and more unresonable, critical of me, and wanting to argue.

The wanting to argue thing - I don't mean he wants to argue is a personal way, he just wants to debate everything constantly in an aggessive way. I'm normally interested in discussing politics and other debatey-type subjects, but the manner in which he does it sets my heart racing, I'm on the edge of my seat etc. I can't even say something factual without him arguing about it! So I end up having to explain and point out the research/studies/evidence of every tiny thing. It is so incredibly stressful trying to say anything, plus he interrupts - if I point it out, he says I do it too.

This is a general thing he says about everything - if I try to explain why he is utterly infuriating me, or something is difficult, he does this look (a sort of guilt-inducing look like you'd do at a small child who you caught misbehaving) and tells me in a lecturey way that whatever the thing is, I do it worse. But he compares ridiculous things! Eg. an overarching one is that he compares him being a twunt when drunk to me needing a chat or hug when I'm struggling with my mental health. They're not the same, are they? And even if they were I basically can't talk to him about anything/confide in him anyway, because I get a load of condesceding mansplaining about how I shouldn't feel the things I feel, how I'm completely wrong, all wrapped up in - this is so hard to describe - a sort of "but I love you, you just need to try to behave" patronising type thing. He doesn't use those words exactly (though he says he loves me sometimes as if that means I should 'obey' him...) it's just his whole manner that gives that impression.

Also, within 'debates', he seems to have no attention span. He often interrupts if I try to make a point, gets distracted by a screen, suddenly announces he needs the loo and wanders off etc. If I can actually make my point, he then replies and goes off into a monologue, changing the subject several times, but all in a sort of aggressively defensive way as if I'm arguing with him but I'm not saying anything! I'm supposed to listen with rapt attention to the most tedious and irrelevent stuff! It feels like I am expected to be some kind of 1950's downtrodden housewife saying "Yes dear, you know best, dear", combined with being his mum and having to teach him about the basics of social interaction. He seems to have become a grumpy old man, very quickly. I am actually concerned that he may have a degenerative brain condition (he's 41 so not old) or something; he literally seems to be losing the ability to interact. I know he is very unhappy - currently signed off with depression - and I try to be supportive and encouraging as far as that goes.

Reading over this it sounds quite bad, he will be kind on occasion, it's just I never know. And sometimes he'll be kind but then randomly start lecturing me. But the thing is - the stuff I've written is happening more and more. It used to be the odd occasion, now it's almost constant. My awesome fun friend who used to giggle with me observing the little quirks in life has gone, just the odd glimpse of him now.

The other thing that is confusing me in a situation that otherwise seems straightforward (LTB!) is this: people think I'm a bitch. It really hurts, because I have always tried so hard to "do the right thing". I try to help people if I can, I don't lie (but try to be tactful!), I try to do what is right, not just what I want/what is easy. I was brought up in a religious family which has obviously affected my philosophy on life. I want to give, to be kind, to nurture, to love people even if I dont like them. I realise this sounds incredibly cheesy! Unfortunately I also didn't learn much self worth growing up, so obviously was ripe for being taken advantage of, not knowing how to stand up for myself/being a people-pleaser.

But I am widely believe to be a horrible, attention-seeking, manipulative person - people have actually met me and then been surprised I'm nothing like my reputation. It largely seems to centre on my MH issues - it's as if people can't accept I'm 'ill'/struggling/can't always act 'normal' because at other times I seem perfectly fine/coherant. I also (until recently subconsciously) resist being "othered" and want to be seen as a person, not have my thoughts or quite understandable issues dismissed as me being mentally defective. I dunno, maybe I am barking up the wrong tree, but I'm pretty sure I'm not a horrible person so there must be some explanation. I often feel I must just be fundamentally worthless but then surely that's the depression speaking?

Anyway, my friend's other friends apparently tell him he shouldn't go near me. As if I'm the one causing problems. Also due to my issues I have never been wildly popular, have often been lonely, and have recently lost a few friends (well, one proper good friend and others in the same social group by extension) because I just cannot deal with feeling so utterly unaccepted as myself, or treated as a lesser person. So I keep thinking: maybe it is me? Maybe I am reading things all wrong?

I'm sorry this post is so long and complex; I didn't want to drip feed or miss the point.

For info: I am on benefits for longterm MH issues involivng depression/anxiety/trauma. I see a therapist weekly but have no NHS support and fighting for it just wore me out, better spend the energy on getting better! I have no DC and am early 30's.

Just to add, aside from therapist there is pretty much no-one else I can discuss this with. I can't claim to have no friends at all, but I am very alone and very down atm, and can't cope with trying to reach only only to be pushed away or thought of badly. This man is the only person I see day-to-day. If there were people I could talk to irl I would have done so much earlier about so many things. I just so wish someone understood. Thanks for reading x

I don't want to just read and run, but it does sound complex and tbh I don't have any answers. Do you think you'd feel better if you stopped seeing that friend? Or even go for a 'choose your battles' approach when you're feeling low and let him score conversational points - or steer into less argumentative topics?

I have absolutely no idea why anyone would spend time with this man, he's an idiot.

I guess if you feel isolated he may be your only go to person, but frankly he's so fucked up he will just contribute to existing mental health problems.

You sound like a perfectly nice person. It sounds more like you just have low self esteem. Some people find mental health issues hard to deal with, that may have been an issue in your life, but honestly that doesn't reflect on you as a person.

If you were mean you'd have told him to fuck off a long time ago (and frankly it would be a lot better for you if you had).

He doesn't sound like much of a friend, to be honest.

And people who have to turn everything into a debate are. Downright tedious. It must be almost as exhausting having to turn everything into a confrontation as it is to spend time with someone like that.

And you know, I obviously don't know you. You could be sitting on the same bus as me for all I know. But even if you were a genuinely unpleasant person, as you seem to believe you are, you don't have to put up with his bullshit.

I don't believe you're an unpleasant person OP, I think you just have low self esteem. People with MH issues can behave oddly, and some people just don't understand it.

There are 1000s of men on the internet like your friend, arguing the toss over everything, mansplaining away like a broken record.

I would cut him out of your life completely and start afresh with only decent people in your life.

Goodness me! Sounds like you are a whole lot more patient and eloquent than me. He sounds utterly exhausting and although you are lonely, I doubt he's really helping much. Is he the one slagging you off so everyone thinks you're a bitch?

First off, he sounds very tiring to be around right now, so I would avoid that. I'd text him and say that you seem to only argue when you spend time together these days and that you don't want things to be that way, so you think you should take a break from spending time together and then perhaps things will recover later on. I'm suggesting that kind of wording because I don't see how he can take that as bitchy or show it to anyone saying 'what a bitch!' Then you have some space. If you're just happier without him in your life, you can always continue that indefinitely..

Second, you need some new friends! What chances do you have to meet new people? Would a job move or house move be on the cards or are you tied where you are / have good other support there?

You've written a lot....this is what I say and is the right thing to do. LTB

Thanks everyone. Just wanted to check I wasn't being completely mad or something. I'm just finding it hard to navigate all relationships - how I should act, where I should let something drop and where I am being treated badly, or am overreacting... it's all bound up in my MH issues which are kind of me trying to find my place in the world.

I do care deeply about this man, although patience is wearing thin. I am genuinely worried about him because it seems a fairly rapid deterioration, and it does seem like he's unhappy/frustrated and thus acts like this more to sort of assert himself/boost his ego. When I manage to point out what he's doing, usually with humour, he does sort of bashfully concede the point and looks like a small lost child. Also some of it really does seem like he's confused, losing his own train of thought etc.

Maud It's not him saying stuff that has made others think I'm a bitch - apart from his friends, of course. There is some crossover in social circles but stuff was long past before I even knew him. Thing is, it's easy for him to make me sound bad. Two or three times in the approx 2 yrs we've spent time with each other, the police have knocked at his on account of me. Because they have been worried about my mental health/sent by the crisis team/someone else and I won't go to hospital with them, so they compromise by saying they need to make sure someone's with me. (The backstory is long but suffice it to say I do not meet the criteria for secondary MH services, and will never be hospitalised by them again (this is their view), so spending several hours in A&E waiting with a police escort, to have my problems dismissed, be made to feel I am wasting everyone's time, and sent away with a vague "see yor GP" is guaranteed to make me feel worse. I don't talk to the crisis team or anyone anymore because the response seems to be either disinterest/invalidation or the opposite extreme of "Fuck, call 999!" And yes, I do see me GP periodically.) So I can easily be made to sound dreadful, and I suspect he says things like "Oh, she's always..." without actually giving examples or looking at his own behaviour.

Tendon I feel like Im kind of working on myself before I'm ready to make new friends. I don't know how to do that though - I've always made friends by chance rather than when I've wanted to and been lonely. I find I can socialise quite well but am rarely particularly someone's friend rather than part of a crowd. The people I've met over the years who I've 'clicked' with have always been about to move across the country, leave to travel indefinitely, meet the love of their life and disappear off the radar to everyone... etc.! I have travelled quite a bit and always seems to meet many more people I click with when on the road... maybe I fit in with others who don't fit in but I'm a rare one who wants a settled home and community?! I feel like I've been left behind, like everyone has made friends they've now known for years and I'm one of the odd ones left out I have moved twice in my life to diffferent locations so dont really want to again unless it was for a very specific reason. Plus I can afford my flat - paying beow market rent - which is important to me, having lived in some difficult situations in the past. I live in an English city, so not out in the sticks wth no people or anything!

Gosh, sorry for the essays!