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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Drifted into marriage, cultivate it or leave?

26 replies

WarmerWeather · 15/09/2015 20:24

Six years ago, I drifted into a relationship with a man that I found somewhat attractive on the outside but didn't like on the inside. Others find him very good looking and, in fact he is upstanding, conservative, hard working, smart, even athletic. On initial dates, I felt nothing and just went with that for some reason or another, weakness, immaturity, although he did feel something, because he drove the relationship forward quickly even while I was tapping the brakes, asking for time. He said it first, an "I love you", and I responded in my head with an "I like a couple parts about you and dislike a lot of other parts, too" and waited a year to say it back, to force the words out, the three words. Through engagement the third year, marriage the fourth, a home the fifth, I wanted out, asked for it, tried it, but got pulled back in with loneliness and fear, and the result was distancing between us. I also took contracts for work that included travel, lived in other cities, and formed a life with hobbies and circles away from him over the next few years. Except for budding careers, we didn't share anything in common except for her friends, so this did not come as a surprise. We were not good spouses, and did not model after successful marriages at all. My parents and friends warned against pursuing it initially, but it fell on young, stubborn, and deaf ears. So, we both ignored the signs, and the discord, and the isolation from friends and family, grew for a few years until we were basically roommates. Codependent business partners in life - not spouses.

Fast forward to last summer, and just when I snap out of this drift, I'm six months pregnant. I have nothing to lose in the relationship, it is uncultivated, distance, dry, loveless, empty, and I tell him that if pregnancy were not the current reality, I'd divorce, and he understands and empathizes, agrees momentarily. The shame of divorce, the legacy on kids, the fear of being alone again, etc, hits hard at moments like these. We seek counseling, and they recommended splitting given my lack of desire for the marriage ever, and then we drafted divorce papers that we agree on. He does not want this, and I feel terrible for leading him here, but put one front of the other. Since drafting papers six months ago, we have been coparenting very well together. He is over often, does not stay the night, and we are cordial. The loneliness of our past is no different than this current arrangement - we are used to it. I am not sure what to do now. He still wants to remain married, and give it another go while being more aware of each other, respectful, appreciative, supporting, etc. That sounds nice, but that's what he wants. I would prefer to start over, and am actually looking forward to dating and finding someone that I love. But I am torn, too, because everyday with my son, and having his father there as a constant presence (for him), sounds nice, too.

Would you stay in a marriage even if you never wanted it, and centralize on raising children rather than leave at this point? Again, I live separately, have papers in hand, and am ready mentally. But I just don't know. I am aware that divorce causes the most unhappiness initially, and discomfort, but have also seen it result in wonderful families, love, and life afterwards.

OP posts:
ArialBold · 15/09/2015 20:25

I'd absolutely split.

None of the stuff you fear can be worse than this miserable state you're in.

WarmerWeather · 15/09/2015 20:41

Thanks for your message. The fear is the toughest part, for sure.

OP posts:
ClashCityRocker · 15/09/2015 20:44

You deserve to be happy.

It seems like you sleepwalked into a marriage you didn't want - don't sleepwalk the rest of your life away too.

sarahjor · 15/09/2015 20:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WarmerWeather · 15/09/2015 23:59

Sleepwalking through the relationship is a great way to put it. Engaged in the other aspects of life fully, and those paid dividends. Just could never give to or respect the marriage, unfortunately.

Eyes wide open now.

Sarahjor, how are you holding up? What happened with your experience, if you care to share of course.

I am curious about those that pulled away because it wasn't quite right, and if they found love and companionship that far exceeded their first go around.

OP posts:
ThisIsStillFolkGirl · 16/09/2015 00:34

Well you didn't really sleepwalk into it. You chose it. You chose to tell him you loved him when you didn't, you chose to leave him, you chose to let yourself be drawn back in, you chose to ignore the advice of others.

You are curious about those who pulled back and then found love? The world is full of people who ended relationships with people they didn't like and met someone they did. It's how it works.

Your son won't benefit from being raised in a sham of a family. Leave and make a life for yourself that isn't focused on being in a relationship. Then you might meet someone who you do like!

It's your choice..

I'm not being harsh or unkind, just trying to explain that you do have agency in your own life. Don't be so passive in it..

WarmerWeather · 16/09/2015 06:03

Thank you for the thoughtful words, and I appreciate the tough love right now. I did decide in a passive way.

We are both intent on reaching a decision this week, as it's time to move forward regardless.

He's a good man, and deserves companionship, chemistry, as much as I do. And, yet, we are both, at least in my opinion, well adapted adults that could make it work. As a former sleepwalker :), I feel like that could be said for almost any normal person though.

The back and forth is not fun for certain.

OP posts:
hesterton · 16/09/2015 06:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WarmerWeather · 16/09/2015 18:00

I would be happy to see him happy. I can picture it, and have in the past. I would be worried about how a future spouse would be with my son, of course, but not for my husband's sake.

This is about letting go of my son more than him, in other words.

OP posts:
BeyonceRiRiMadonnna · 16/09/2015 19:31

So you are still considering drifting ref: cultivating?? From your posts it sounds like you could easily continue to drift?

You do realise your life is no dress rehearsal and that you only get one life, right? OP I'm baffled, I can't wrap my head around your posts, but how in heavens name does one "drift into marriage, and then bringing a child into this world?". How do you cultivate something that's dead?

Scremersford · 16/09/2015 19:38

I can't make sense of this post either OP. You give the impression that you think nothing is your responsibility and you have been and continue to be strangely incapable of taking control of your own life. Things just seem to happen to you. Since you have had a marriage and have a child, presumably you have got roughly what you wanted and can look forward to being happily divorced, since you appear to have no emotions or feelings either way towards this man that you found yourself in a relationship with.

QuiteLikely5 · 16/09/2015 19:51

I feel for this man deeply. Why oh why bring a child into it?

Let him go because he just does not deserve to go through life with someone who feels about him the way you do.

I've got no doubt he will eventually meet someone and feel 'real love'. You will too.

On a plus note, you both seem intelligent enough to appreciate the importance of being sensible when it comes to your son and how you parent him. That's worth a million times more than a sham marriage to your son.

ShebaShimmyShake · 16/09/2015 19:58

You sound as if you're asking permission to split; certainly you don't seem to feel that you made active choices in staying in the relationship ("tried" to end it? Nobody could have stopped you if you'd decided you wanted out. "Got pulled back in by loneliness" sounds as if you were passively dragged back into it against your will rather than making the decision yourself).

You don't need anyone's permission to end the marriage, but if it makes you feel better, I give you mine.

There is no shame in ending a relationship that you're both unhappy in and you both sound intelligent, mature and civil enough to maintain a good relationship for the child's sake. The child will be too young to know any different, and if you think s/he won't pick up on the fact their parents aren't in love and are together only for them, you're very very wrong.

WarmerWeather · 16/09/2015 20:17

I'm sorry for being confusing!

Yes it was my choice, I did not mean to sound like I'm avoiding responsibility for my actions, or am not aware that it's my choices that brought me here.
I have a little boy, the love of my life, and am grateful for this, but don't want to live passively any longer. As a metaphor, not shirking responsibility, I slept through my twenties in the relationship, chose to be with a man I didn't love, failed to cultivate what was (or wasn't) possible, and that's taught me more than I could have hoped for, but it has not prepared me for the decision to move on. That's really why I posted here. It's just harder than I thought, the last part. Admitting that it's done, and that it would be for the best to move on, is the last part. There's that what if in the back of my mind, what if we just made it work, and responsible bad for leading him here, that's holding up the last bit.

OP posts:
springydaffs · 16/09/2015 21:13

It seems to me the crux of all this has been your fear of being alone. To the point you accepted, encouraged, sustained this wholly unsatisfying and unfulfilling life. It's like the elephant in the room.

I would explore this in therapy iiwy. See what's behind it. Proper investment, not a few sessions.

Patchworkpatty · 16/09/2015 21:34

I think you sound selfish. You led this man to believe you wanted to live with him 'till death do you part' but now feel he is so dull whilst you are such a ' go getter'. Poor guy ...now it's all me me me. Very very sad for him. If this were a man posting with same back story he would be flamed big time.

RomiiRoo · 16/09/2015 21:39

Okay, I have had a bit of a similar situation but different also- my second marriage we separated nearly three years ago. Very hostile, awful period, big legal bills to reach an agreement, and then having all the thoughts of do I really, truly want to sign these papers? So I didn't, but the difference by this point was that he was leaving me alone. We were co-parenting, but otherwise our communication was about DC and that was all.

And basically for lots of reasons, I needed that space. Without going into details, one of the reasons we separated was there was no space for me. It was about me asking for space and him not giving me it, which got into the dynamic of me feeling ever more crushed and him pushing for something which I could no longer give - as there was none of me left.

But it was only by having space that I could stop fighting for it and think about what I wanted, rather than what he wanted. And very slowly I realised that rather than making me anxious, I was seeing emails about DC as a chance to engage with him. And I think I also began to see him again as a person and not someone who simply set off a train of (mostly negative) thoughts and feelings in me. It helped that he showed me through actions and what he said that he had reflected on his own part in the end of the marriage.

We are still separated, but we are getting to know each other again. The thing which strikes me from your post is that I could not have worked out my feelings without the space to do so. It is nice that he loves you, but you have only got the foundations for a relationship if he loves you back.

How can you decide to a deadline whether you want to try to fix your marriage? My (still) husband has told me he will wait as long as I need - we are getting to know each other again - and I feel listened to now, and I am listening to him. We are not the same people in the same marriage.

RomiiRoo · 16/09/2015 21:42

Sorry, should have said - you only have the foundations for a relationship if you love him back

MatildaTheCat · 16/09/2015 22:37

Actually,when you say, 'I have a little boy', it should read, 'we have a little boy'. I wholly think you should split but that you should be utterly willing to split your parenting 50/50 if your stbxh wants this. He's seemingly done nothing wrong at all and deserves to be a parent to his son just as much as you.

I hope you both find happiness in the future.

PoundingTheStreets · 17/09/2015 00:34

In your shoes I would absolutely continue with the divorce.

Take it from someone who left their X with baby DC. Never knew the turmoil of separating parents as have never known any other way.

Divorce is not a bad thing. How people behave during divorce - and the dramatic change in lifestyle that often accompanies it - is what tends to do the damage. Your baby will never know any other reality you split now, and if your H is a good dad, he will be a good dad regardless of whether he is your H or not.

Scremersford · 17/09/2015 12:49

I'm not sure why anyone would continue with a marriage in the circumstances you outline. Have you tried marriage guidance counselling (not with a view to saving this marriage but in order to try to clarify your actions?)

I think also you need to get out of this thing of bogging yourself down in descriptions and take action. I get that you have to distance yourself but some of your comments are very disrespectful towards your DH, who is a human being and a person too.

This is just a bit ridiculous really:

Fast forward to last summer, and just when I snap out of this drift, I'm six months pregnant

immediately followed by

I have nothing to lose in the relationship, it is uncultivated, distance, dry, loveless, empty, and I tell him that if pregnancy were not the current reality, I'd divorce

Clearly its not that empty or dry or loveless, since you managed to get pregnant...

This I assume is a typo

Except for budding careers, we didn't share anything in common except for her friends

Its all pretty strange really. You sound like a very difficult person. Have you ever had feelings for anyone in a romantic sense at all? Maybe that is your real problem and not your unfortunate DH, and being alone will fulfil you more than a relationship.

WarmerWeather · 17/09/2015 18:04

Thank you for the responses. I am working through them. Your criticisms are helpful, though some sting a little, I guess it's expected.

Responding to some of the posts:

Crux, thank you. I agree with you.

Patch, I feel ashamed for that part, honestly, but have moved on from it. Two very different people without respect, support, love, before separation for years. We are both responsible for this point, perhaps me more so for ignoring it, and have agreed that we were both not good spouses to each other, too. Separation made it so much easier to be cordial and even supportive to each other.

Matilda, our son's custody would be 50/50. We have discussed making the most of our time together, and building from what we learned to create happiness with new families.

Romii, thank you for sharing, this hit home so much. We do care for each other, always have.

Yes, counseling and therapy to work through things will be built into any future for both of us I assume.

Scremer, thank you for commenting. I agree with clarifying actions next. I'm not proud of that part, of realizing how bad it had gotten that late... I'm ashamed of it some, but am not going to pity myself any more. I feel like it's possible to learn from it.

Also, yes, there was intimacy, some mechanical intimacy, the kind you fall asleep to, and yes, that was typo (his, not her). Thank you for considering this in detail, I am grateful for your analysis and thoughts.

OP posts:
WarmerWeather · 17/09/2015 18:33

To respond further to scremersford, again thank you for posting comments here.

To answer your questions, I have been in several romantic relationships before this one, two with love, support, and the contrast is very clear to me.

I do not consider myself difficult, but I consider the decision to divorce difficult, impossibly so at times. I care for my DH and respect him a great deal. Together, we are definitely worse than a part, but that doesn't make it any easier.

OP posts:
featherandblack · 17/09/2015 19:51

It's clear that you are not going to choose to stay with him.

I think he can do much better than this. He deserves to be loved, and did deserve that from day one. It's a shame that you chose to build another life in another city without having the decency to set him free to build his own. Now your ex and you DS not have the pleasure of living full-time with each other. I wouldn't call it sleepwalking, I'd call it not bothering to think for one moment about the other person's deal.

RomiiRoo · 17/09/2015 21:20

I think the point about divorce is that you are letting go, and recognising the marriage is over. So, any doubts around that are about whether it is actually over and there is nothing to save, you are going to have separate lives. But also, it is an ending and you grieve that. Even if you initiated a split, formalising it and finalising it is hard.

You say you sleep-walked into marriage - how do you mean? Do you mean emotionally detached (at a deeper psychological level), or that it seemed just like the next stage in your life, or because there was so little of you for whatever reason, that you could not consider an alternative? It is possible to emotionally detach and then slowly awaken and see the world differently - the question is why you did this. Which does not need to be answered on-line, but there is a why here, which might help you understand where you are now.

Life is rarely black and white - relationships involve two people and are dynamic - you didn't sleep walk in isolation. to me, the language of sleep walking and of drifting sounds lost, of not having a strong sense of your self, who you are, what you need. Equally, not having your marriage is also about loss - even though you suggest you didn't really want it in the first place. Question is whether it is a loss which opens up space for you to grow; or a loss you want to stop.

You care for each other, not sure if that extends to love. You are co-parenting well and intend 50/50 shared care. You get on fine when you are separated. Maybe that is as good as it gets with your separated husband? It is certainly good enough to raise a secure and contented child.