He just does not 'get it' - how to improve communication

[ConsideringOptions]

NCer here.

I accidentally tripped over H's 4 year affair recently.
Much as neither of us had been ecstatically happy in recent years, I was totally caught off guard.
He states it was 'just for sex' as we have had a sexless marriage since the birth of our last child 5 years ago.
We have been going to relationship counselling for a number of weeks now.

He still does not get it: I need intimacy and closeness to want to have sex and the mere minimum for that is for us to be able to talk to each other. He comes from a proud family of poor communicators, all sorts of dysfunctional shit going on, passive-aggressiveness or sarcasm being the order of the day. He clearly needs sex to feel close and loved and validated. We do not seem to be able to square this particular circle.

I fully accept that I carry half the responsibility for how bad things have become between us; I kind of gave up trying to initiate the 'difficult' chat, because I was always shut down. When I disagree with him about anything, he feels 'dismissed'; I just does not do 'disagreement', then lets talk about it and, I dunno, compromise or agree on one or the other option. I do NOT have to always be 'right', I really don't, but I like to hash things out and consider it from various sides. He will feel attacked and go in a huff (leaves the room, stoney faced), or say "Yes, Dear" but do whatever he likes.

Sorry, I did not actually mean to go in to all the ins and outs of it, here's my question: is there any hope that he can learn how to cope with difference of opinion? To not feel attacked or dismissed when I truly mean nothing of the sort??
It can be over something as trivial as the paint colour to decorate a room or as serious as whether or not to remortgage the house btw.

We had a fraught session at the counsellor's yesterday. I got very upset because he was complaining of 'lack of progress' by which I reckon he means 'still no sex' and I feel utterly, utterly unheard by him. The lack of sex/his affair are a symptom of a much deeper ill IMO and does not see that

Whatever you believe your marriage to be, apart from sex, just think about what his affair has done to the rest of that.

He's lied, he's not worked on the marriage, he's not shared his hopes and fears with you as a partner would.

Remind yourself again of what you actually have apart from sex, rather than what you thought you had before you found out. Most of its a fallacy.

I think you will be very amgry with yourself in the long run for the time you have wasted trying.

What you have is a poorly constructed facade of a marriage. Underneath it's rotten.

I'm surprised you could ever trust him, or bring yourself to be naked with him ever again. The very thought of your situation is making my skin crawl.

More than that, if he isn't interested now, and hasn't been so far, at what point do you actually think it's going to improve/change?

This is the best it's going to be.

As for your title, you can't improve the communication. He doesn't 'get it' because he isn't interested in getting it from your perspective. He's in it on his terms only.

I feel very sorry for you. Not just for the rude, insulting, disrespectful way your H I treating you but because you think that any of this behaviour is 'okay'. Your self-esteem must be so low, your standards for what is acceptable in a relationship so poor that you have a long long journey to drag yourself into a place where your dignity and self-respect is hiding.

I have been you. I wasted too long on a twat who I had multiple theories on why he treated me so appallingly. The only theory that mattered was that I deserved better and it wasn't my job to fix him while sacrificing my best years.

I know see he is an actually just a run of the mill lazy selfish twat and all my handwringing was a complete waste of time.

It's over. He is unfaithful, long term. 'Just for sex' is no excuse - I'll bet she doesn't think it's 'just for sex'. Counselling, in this case, is wasting your breath and wasting energy you could be spending on starting your new life without him.
I'm sorry. This horse is dead, and flogging it will not bring about a revival.

Just popping in as long as the WiFi here will allow me

You are all very unanimous in your views which is interesting.
He's in it on his terms only. - Yes, I think that's true.

The whole self-esteem thing has come up before when I posted about this situation (under a different name) and I just don't see it. Apart from the obvious logistical disruption if we split up, I can totally see my life without him. Tbh, I'd rather live without him than carry on living the way we have before I found out about the affair. I have been asking myself why I am not more devastated by the affair, and I think it is truly because I only see it as a symptom of a much bigger problem - and he does NOT see that. That's what is likely to finish us off as a couple, not the sexual infidelity (which I am hurt by and I don't approve of and I am very angry about btw, just to make that clear).

If he walked out today, we'd be fine. I can support us financially, I have good childcare in place and a supportive family. It's not how I pictured my life panning out, but as the saying goes "Man plans, God laughs" (not that I am a Man or a Believer).

Ok, so nobody has any experiences of reconciling different communication styles then? Damn.

What is your motivation for wanting to fix this?

Do you actually want to have sex with him? I personally couldn't go near my partner sexually if he'd slept with someone else. I'd be thinking about it all the time.

And what if this counselling does somehow get you both communicating better, so you experience greater intimacy and therefore desire some kind of physical closeness.... Will you be expected to 'perform' some minimum quota of wifely sex duties in order to prevent him.straying again? How's it supposed to work?

So many questions...! But you seem so level headed and willing to try, I'm just wondering what your limits actually are, and how you can manage to not lose sight of your own desires and needs in there.

Tbh, it doesn't matter what other people's experiences are. We could all be saying that we'd worked with out husbands and successfully overcome different communication styles.

But firstly, that's not the only thing you're dealing with. You're also dealing with an affair. And secondly, your husband isn't interested in overcoming it. You're not both trying and hitting a brick wall even. He's not trying.

The self esteem thung comes up because, if you had good self esteem you'd be thinking how dare he have a 4 year (!!!) affair behind your back and then not even be willing to give it his all to sort it out.

More thqn that, 4 years isn't a fling. He has had a full blown relationship behind your back. He didn't own up, you discovered it and now he's nit even thinking about you, all he's interested in is getting sex.

It's not about you reconciling different styles of communication though. You are showing good willing to both look at the situation with an open and critical eye, and see where you can both work towards addressing it. He isn't even prepared to look at what the situation is. Not only is he on shutdown re communicating with you, he isn't prepared to be honest, listen to you and hear your POV re lack of intimacy.

His "go to" behaviour is to shut you down. Whatever you try he will shut down.

The main thing you need here at least initially is for both of you to commit to engaging with the process. Can you see him doing that? I can't - it would involve too much of a radical reworking of his entire person.

I hear so much of my own frustrations with XP in what you write. THen the penny dropped that he was actually verbally and emotionally abusive and it didn't matter what I did, he was not open to it.

I think the reason the affair didn't come as such a big blow to you, was you are already considerably detached from him after 5 year of this.

I am afraid you are probably irreconcilable. Your DH just doesn't understand (for reasons you recognise, connected with his upbringing) what it is you want from him. What you are saying to your DH is "I'll love you if you become a different person" (A theme unfortunately all too prevalent on this site.) That isn't going to happen, is it? And, realistically, is there any hope of rekindling intimacy after this long?

If I can be brutally frank, are you really surprised your DH has been having sex elsewhere if you haven't had it with him in FIVE YEARS? I don't condone infidelity, but the fact is that plenty of men would have bailed on the relationship a long time ago. Perhaps it would have been better all round to call it a day before now, but I think that's what you'l both have to do. Sorry.

The self esteem thung comes up because, if you had good self esteem you'd be thinking how dare he have a 4 year (!!!) affair behind your back and then not even be willing to give it his all to sort it out.

I think he is willing, but not sure whether he is able.

What you are saying to your DH is "I'll love you if you become a different person"
Yes, too true and likely the crux of the matter. I know I cannot change him, and I am not prepared to change myself to accommodate his emotional baggage.

And yes, I was surprised that he was having sex elsewhere as I was not having sex either and still was not seeking it elsewhere. I was labouring under the misapprehension that we either a. both had little/no desire for sex or b. would bloody talk about it if it was a problem.

It always comes down to screwed up communication, whichever way I look at it. And a male sense of entitlement to a sex life

OP I could have written your entire post two years ago.
I tried desperately save my 17yr marriage in almost the same circumstances - ExH admitted 18mth affair that had finished a year before , almost non existent sex life, he was a terrible communicator with very uptight family history and an awful relationship with his mother

We had 6 weeks of counselling during which he told me all the things that were wrong with me & I tried to change. All I wanted from h was cm indication. On week 6 he said he didn't want me phoning him every night (he worked away mon-Th) especially if I was going to be negative because kids had been difficult

During this time he never changed anything about his behaviour!

I was totally broken by all of this but his comment about the kids jolted me into a "I deserve better than this" mentality. I kicked him out and petitioned for divorce a week later.
I look back now and wonder why o even bothered to try - but I think my brain needed to catch up with what had happened.
Sadly 1 person cannot fix a 2 person relationship

My advice is to be strong and be selfish - you deserve better.

Sadly 1 person cannot fix a 2 person relationship

That sounded hard, sorry OP. I don't mean to be harsh. But realistically, this situation is not going to get better itself is it?

None of you have been 'harsh' or unkind, and I appreciate the time you took to post

Thank you, Start, for writing about your experience. It's good to read that you feel you are in a better situation now.

I've had legal advice, I know where I stand. We shall see.
But thank you all for your thoughts x.

He sounds incredibly passive aggressive. Like his reaction to you not wanting sex is not to think "Hmm, what can I do to fix this problem - I will try talking to my wife and see what we can resolve". No, it was straight to "She doesn't want to have sex with me, FINE. I will just go and get it elsewhere because WHAT DOES SHE EXPECT."

I've told this story before, but I had an ex who was very passive aggressive, like to the nth degree. I asked him this personality quiz type question: You're walking through the desert and you come to a wall in front of you. What do you do?

Most people will answer Try to climb it, Dig under it, Find a way round, etc. I immediately start to ask "What tools do I have with me? What's it made of? How tall it is?" The answer you give is your approach to problem solving. In my case of course it shows I am very analytical, which is pretty handy seeing as that's my job :)

Anyway my ex's response was "Well, I suppose I'd just sit down and wait to die, then."

You should try it out on your "D" H. I'd be interested to hear his answer...