Affair, Divorce, Limerence? Any way back?

[Notnastypasty]

I've been separated from my DH for 18 months. 2 years ago I found out he'd been having an affair with someone from work. I was devastated as our relationship had always been great and I had no idea this was going on. I was so shocked I agreed to work on it and we had a very difficult 6 months of tears, arguing, talking etc but things seemed to be going in the right direction. 18 months ago he said he couldn't do this anymore and left, leaving me and DD6 devastated. Fast forward another 6 months and I found out he'd been with the OW since he left, she has since been introduced to my DD and her and DH have been planning a future together.

Just recently cracks are beginning to show in their relationship, he's told friends that he wished he stayed and worked at our marriage, things aren't great between him and the OW etc and they may be splitting up.

I feel really angry with myself because part of me is thinking 'could it ever work again'. I've totally moved on, sorted myself out and I'm happy with my life (mostly) and feel independent. I'm still single but I've been dating on and off. There's no question of him coming back here and our divorce is going ahead, our finances have been sorted.

I suppose I'm asking if it might ever work later on, maybe a couple of years down the line if I could see he'd changed? If he got his own place and we became friends (despite everything we're mostly on good terms) could it ever work?

I'm not making excuses for him AT ALL, he's been a complete bastard, selfish and spiteful but his behaviour was so out of character that friends and family questioned if he had a brain tumour or was having a breakdown. Until then he'd been an amazing husband and dad, everyone commented on what a lovely guy he was.

I know he regrets what he did, when you realise what you've lost do you learn your lesson? I strongly believe he was suffering from Limerence but don't know enough about it to say for sure. I would appreciate anyone's opinion especially if they've been there!

I'm so sorry this happened to you, Not. This is a deeply painful thing to go through.

I am afraid you need to continue to detach from your ex, and you need to work hard and joyfully on that, starting today. You discovered his affair, he did not tell you. He then stayed and made seemingly, not enough effort to repair the huge damage he had done. He will have been in touch with the OW that whole time, and eventually decided he could not live without her and left you for her, and he lied to you about that. . Whether he has occasional regrets now is not your business. He has not even expressed that to you and begged to come back, he has casually expressed it to acquaintances (allegedly) who will probably exaggerate that to you in the belief it will make you feel better.

I understand there is a golden ideal where he becomes a different person and in the future the family is reunited but you need to let go of that. Even if it happened (which it won't in that way), you would be best served by being totally detached of him and this dream, which I don't believe you are yet. You deserve to think higher of yourself than someone your husband can return to after cheating, lying, hiding, leaving, betraying again, and tghen becoming bored with the other woman he chose over you. I know this sounds brutal but it speaks badly of him, not of you. Regret is not enough. People are with who they want to be with.

Congratulations on moving on and being independent. I suggest you listen to this podcast by Cheryl Strayed
www.wbur.org/2015/08/14/dear-sugar-episode-twenty-two

obviously the scenario is completely different in that podcast and far slighter and smaller! I don't wish to make direct comparison. But sometimes it takes a very different story to cast light on our own, and there is a central compassionate truth to it I think.

the reality is that you can never go back, on either side.

That's not to say that you couldn't potentially fall in love again in the future, but that would be a whole different scenario.

The fact is that your marriage as it was then ended because he had an affair and chose to be with someone else.

It is possible that he regrets what he did, it's even possible that he wishes he could turn back time. And although he acted like a complete bastard it's true that good people do bad things and that this act doesn't mean he is a bastard to the core - iyswim.

However he has spent the past year in a different place and has become a different person and so have you.

You have got on with your life and that's what you need to continue to do. And chances are that even if he leaves the ow he will still carry on with his life, not because he is being a bastard but because the marriage he had is no longer there. If it ever got to a point where you decided to try again you would essentially need to go back to dating from scratch, getting to know each other from scratch and building the trust which was obliterated during the marriage and the affair. And that would also include having to go back to a point where the past is the past and you're living for the future and the here and now. That would be a difficult thing to achieve given the separation and subsequent year away with the both of you dating other people, and in his case, living with the ow he left you for.

You need to build your life now, date other people, or don't, depending on your view and wishes, remain amicable with your ex for the sake of dd, but let go of the notion that things might go back to the way they were because reality is that they won't.

Thank you blood, I will listen to the podcast now.

WannaBe, that is what I was asking really, could we carry on with our own lives and maybe start afresh one day in the future? Im not saying it's what I want, just that theres always a possibility.

I think the most important thing to bear in mind is that it doesn't feel like he has pioneered a committed and emotionally mature bid to win you back. As wanna says, the marriage is gone, the fact you use the word 'back' in your original post does suggest you are looking for something that can never ever be re-found. That is sad and shocking, but it is true.

I wonder if this is actually a last ditch emotional explosion on your part to finally get over him properly. It feels, in the honest way you describe his behaviour, that you know deep down the answer to your own question but that you have been living and leaning on this tiny sliver of a chance that it isn't actually really definitely properly forever over. Rather than this being the moment of you considering trying again, perhaps you are actually finally thinking seriously about closing the door properly, for good. And that's really hard.

Hi OP,

To answer your question, its not impossible that you could start afresh at one point but you can't plan or hope for it. You have to find yourself, find your own centre of gravity and build a life for yourself (which it sounds like you are doing pretty well at doing) without him.

As wannaBe said, if and its a big if you did ever get to a point where you felt ready to have a relationship with him you would have to start from the beginning and that would be extremely difficult given your history. You would have to accept that you would always be looking over your shoulder and worrying about what he was doing, whether you could trust him. That is no basis for a relationship.

Carry on building your own life and finding out who you are. Whatever you do, don't hang your hope on his plans.

It also concerns me that you describe his behaviour as totally out of character. This is impossible as he did it and he is him. I'm not sure you have fully reconciled the reality of his actions with your view of him, because from the outside with objectivity I can tell you that there are only two options, either it was in character for him, and you and family members were duped by his clever presentation of self on the side, or he has fallen so completely in love with someone else and so completely out of love with you and your marriage that he felt no other action was possible. To be honest, the chronic deception present in your discovery rather than his admission, and then the cowardly way in which he left you clouded in lies that presumably continued until you discovered he was actually with the OW, are far more revealing about his character. 'Complete bastard' and 'amazing husband and dad' don't really gel and you need to stop holding on to one view of him, or oscillating between them, and accept who he is and how he's behaved and see his mistreatment of you and his behaviour make it impossible for you to be kind to yourself and be with him.

See also using 'limerance' as some sort of medical diagnosis of his bastard-ness as if it is an illness that will pass rather than a series of choices which he has made, all of which hurtfully scream, 'he's not that into you.' Perhaps you need to re-find your anger, the way he has treated you is appalling and continues to be so.

It is you doing all the mental work to maintain a good relationship with him despite his actions. This is ideal for him.

This doesn't mean the relationship was/is good, it means you are prepared to sacrifice your anger and hurt for the sake of that relationship, even though you get nothing from it but being held back. You are doing all the work here, he hasn't even come to you and begged for forgiveness yet you are still planning your reconciliation in a few years. you need to stop holding this zombie relationship up in your own mind and re-find your rage and strength.

What all PPs said.

Please detach. You live only once, he had his chance - didn't want to use it properly.
For him now grass is greener on your side.

Look for someone better and more appreciative of your time, love and existence in this world/his life.

Bastards always stay the same, imo.

Well done for becoming who you are right now, x

Until then he'd been an amazing husband and dad, everyone commented on what a lovely guy he was.
Same here, and there are plenty of posts on MN which start out with the poster unwilling to diagnose an affair, as the guy is just not like that.

But we're not simple creatures, we're complex and make mistakes, and no-one is all good or all bad. In my husband's case I wonder if he was trying too hard to be "good", never telling me anything negative, incapable of confrontation or bringing up any problems. So he kept it all bottled up without letting me even know if anything was bothering him. He had to be "good" to satisfy his parents, but he could never be good enough for them. When his mother died it seems he gave up trying to be a lovely guy, and that probably made secret sex all the more thrilling. (I read his emails, and it seems the secret aspect got him very excited.)

I never thought my husband was perfect, but I was absolutely amazed by quite what a shit he'd been. It is hard to accept that the smiley, angelic nice guy simply did something nasty, as we don't like that complex kind of situation; we like nice easy categories.

I'd guess he never stopped seeing the OW and yes I bet he does wish he had worked at his marriage, fact is, he didn't and it is what it is. I don't know why folk imagine a cheat is someone horrible, they are just like me and you except they have that one flaw, they can't stay faithful, remember that, he was unfaithful to you through his OWN choice, nothing else.

Who cares if there are cracks in his new relationship, doesn't change F A.

If you are happy to be sub standard then maybe it could work in the future, fact is, and I know it's harsh, he cant possibly love you like you deserve to have done what he's done so far..........do you really want to risk your sanity by allowing him to do the same thing a few years down the line, I'd much rather find myself a partner who can be equal to me than risk my own self respect. Think about it, you are romancing, I think he's one lucky bastard that you have remained amicable with him.

I think you and your DD deserve more than a man who follows his cock...

Oh love, wake up. Please, did you leave your dignity under your bed or in the wardrobe? It's so easily to lie to ourselves. Nearly all the women who have been through this thought 'brain tumour' at one stage.
Dirty lying cock lover, cheating cunt is a more accurate description. Sorry.

I do appreciate all the replies even though some are maybe not what I want to hear but was expecting anyway.

I've asked for people opinions and I value them but to say I've got no dignity or self worth isn't really fair. I've handled myself with dignity without and put my daughter first. I'm certainly not welcoming him back with open arms, I'm divorcing him, I was just wondering if people are really capable of change? I'm assuming everyone thinks they're not.

No I'm not completely detached, I loved him deeply and the family that we had. I'm not in love with him anymore and don't know if I ever could be again. But maybe I'm not ready to shut the door on that possibility yet.

I know I can start afresh with someone new. But my view of the world has changed, the amount of people I know who have been unfaithful is huge. How do we ever know if someone is capable of it?

I think the terrifying and tremendous truth of life is that we never know. We're drowning in threads on here from women who swear they NEVER would have thought their husband was the type to cheat, ever and equally in life I've seen people who've cheated their whole lives (uncaught) meet someone and settle down and never stray again. I'm not trying to get all existential and say it's pointless judging anyone, of course it isn't, but yes of course people are capable of change. It's not really about that.

What I suppose it feels like, from an outsider's point of view, is that the most interesting elements of your post are not any lack of dignity (you sound bright and dignified and very self-aware.) But firstly, the fact is he really isn't and hasn't done a single thing that I would put, from experience as necessary firsts and definites for a cheater wanting to make a marriage work again. It seems like you are actually the one, despite all the mistreatment, who in your own words, can't quite shut the door on the future possibility.

In my opinion it is this you need to look at and consider. There's a reason. It may be tied to poor experiences in dating since him, it may be due to a jaded view of relationships that you have fostered from people around you. The truth is that infidelity is extremely common and widespread, far more so than we are led to believe. But that is not me being jaded and not believing in hope and love. I promise. I have seen people have ill advised one night stands, re-appreciate their partner, never tell and resolve to make their marriage ten times better. I have also seen a bad marriage propped up with a decade of infidelitous behaviour which, when discovered, meant the cheater stayed for the rest of their life out of guilt, even though she was desperately unhappy and mistreated for the whole marriage. Nothing is cut and dry.

But what I'm saying is that, without knowing you or your ex, every single thing you have said here suggests that you are the one clinging on to you marriage, not him, whatever he may have claimed to mutuals friends, and that is painful to see. But also that for some reason you might be more prepared to accept being treated badly than is good for you. This resonated with me, for a long time I hid behind independence and cynicism which felt like strength in what I was prepared to put up with in a partner.

I suspect that your journey to finally shutting that door will be a difficult but more rewarding one than the horrible and untrusting one of trying to win someone back who has so completely rejected and deceived you. Have you considered individual counselling?

i think you also would benefit from considering whether, underneath it all, your unwillingness to totally shut the door on him has held you back from proactively pursuing other sources of happiness and other partners, leading you into a vicious circle back to him. I wonder if you would actually be happier if you accepted and decided you didn't want him than living in this tellingly safe and familiar (even though it would actually be neither) mental purgatory.

Thank you blood, I really do appreciate your time and wisdom, a lot of what you say is probably true. I said a long time ago 'never again' but wonder if I saw genuine remorse and huge changes, could I forgive him? I'm not seeing those at the moment so would not consider for a second going down that road.

Brokenhearted, I did read the Limerence thread and have also googled it. It says Limerence typically only lasts up to 3 years when reciprocated which this has been. In the beginning she could do no wrong and was perfect. Now he is acknowledging her faults and realising the grass isn't always greener.

I'm so sorry this has happened, I don't have much to offer in the way of advice, but I did want to offer a virtual and this is a crap situation, it's not your fault and I hope you find happiness again really soon

No problem, not. But try and think what you would say to a dear friend in your position. The fact you are even imagining what you would do if he showed genuine remorse and huge change is kind of sad. I don't mean that judgementally, but you are taking your imaginative powers and using them to twist reality into a world where he wants to be with you again and is a different person. And he isn't. He doesn't. Imagine what you could achieve if you spent this imaginative energy somewhere else, or on somewhere else. Frankly, you may as well imagine someone you haven't even met yet being lovely to you, it's more likely and would definitely be easier. You are sort of self-soothing, and it's totally understandable, but you really need to train your mind differently, because we tend to try and make real that which we continually fantasise about.

It's your own mind that is fighting against you. I am choosing to believe perhaps it is an extinction burst youarenotsosmart.com/2010/07/07/extinction-burst/
that you need to go through this to move past him.

I also wonder if you should think about what is going on around you now that is provoking this. Perhaps a 'friend' is talking about him to you too much and setting your thoughts running. Or maybe something in your life is making you nostalgic. Whatever it is, you need to address it, to protect yourself and to truly move on and be a friend to yourself.