Feeling a bit inadequate / DP's low sex drive. What's 'normal'?

[alltoomuchrightnow]

DP is 52 and I'm 8 years younger. We've been together a year and a half. We've never had the 'shag each other senseless' honeymoon period even though secretly I wanted that
He admits his drive is fairly low and says he's happy with 'once a week'. (usually it's less than this, and I probably instigate more than he does, when it happens)
He is an old friend of mine, we nearly got together 20 years ago and DTD once then, he was much more a sexual person but he was in his early 30s then. (so having something to compare to doesn't really help)
I'm wondering if all this is very normal although I would like a little more than we do. He won't compromise though, so I do get many rejections.
He says that once he got into his 40s his drive changed dramatically, he calls it a male menopause.
He won't go to the doctor. He has , since we've been together, bought Viagra and also testosterone tablets online, which didn't work ( he only admitted after he'd used them... I would never want him to use something non prescribed - he bought them in secret)
He was single and celibate for 5 years before we got together (and says he really wasn't bothered about ever having sex again) before that in a relationship for ten years which was sexually active (to what extent, i have no idea and don't really care to know)
The constant rejections don't do much for my self esteem and at least if it was a definite once a week, it would be easier. I would like more but try not to push it. If I suggest sex and he says no, I don't push it as there's nothing less sexy
I should say that he IS a loving , decent partner. He is affectionate, he cuddles me in bed, if there was no affection I couldn't be with him. We are good friends as well as partners but I don't want to end up as more brother and sister than lovers. (i have said this before and he's agreed, but, nothing changed)
I have depression but my drive is about average I'd say. He says he definitely doesn't have depression but I'm not so sure. He says he feels his drive is very normal for a man of his age ( I don't say that i've had past partners older than him with very high drives, as I know this would not help matters!)
I thought we were doing ok but am now starting to feel inadequate. Many of our friends have young children (or even grandchildren commitments) and often make remarks about that as we are both childless, we must be swinging from the chandeliers etc etc as we have no real responsibility (not true! ie the sex or the lack of responsibilities!) It's true we can often afford long lie ins and so on and have a certain amount of freedom in that we can be spontaneous in that can go out without worrying about babysitters etc etc,,, but most of the time that (lie in) is for sleeping, rarely for sex. He is always too tired. There never seems to be a right time.
Does this sound about normal for a childless middle aged couple who don't have any major health problems? Please no harsh replies :-( as am so down right now anyway (coming off my usual antidepressants to try another and the withdrawal is awful)
Why do people think that because we are infertile, we should be at it like rabbits?? (and that we aren't an old jaded married couple..but quite new..their words not mine) We both work. We both have commitments and more than one job each. As I said..we do have luxuries of lie ins etc in that we don't have to get up for little ones, but doesn't mean we have energy or inclination for constant sex (or even, regular). I thought we were doing ok and yes I'd like more but was prepared to grin and bare it as other aspects were good. I love him dearly otherwise I wouldnt be with him. I would never stay with someone for the sake of it
I'm sick of the remarks and I just smile and agree.. little do they know..... i know that some friends with young children have more sex than we do, which makes me feel doubly crap

If I'm totally honest, I think some of my sadness is that I haven't fully come to terms with being infertile, and feel cheated. That the 'compensation' of that should be lots of great, spontaneous sex, that should be the pay off. But it really doesn't work like that! We don't have lots of sex, holidays, meals out etc etc. We went out for a friend's birthday meal at the weekend and both realised we hadn't eaten out since November! This actually shocked our friends and again the remarks came of 'but you don't even have kids' !. Some of our friends (even ones with 6 kids!) eat out a few times a week. I'm not jealous of that by the way, I wouldn't want to. But can just do without unhelpful remarks. We struggle financially, we can't afford hols abroad or nights out. We just managed a week in Devon as was able to rent a friends cottage for peanuts, and only managed sex once. But we did have an amazing week enjoying each others company and doing loads.
I'm not really posting on here for advice as I don't feel there is anything I can do. He is very accepting of how things are and obviously doesn't want to change that. I think he feels that making the effort from ordering the pills was enough (showed willing) and they didn't work, so that's that.
I suppose just want some insight and interested to hear others viewpoints

I do really fancy him loads by the way, so that doesn't help matters. I feel often , fat ugly and rejected but then remind myself he was celibate for 5 yrs before me (he did look at porn)

There's a lot in your posts but the key to me is to find the thing you can do something about.

You are clearly not happy sexually. Could you be much firmer about him going to the doctors ( or order over the Internet?(

Could you take the lead and organise meals out or other more interesting things.

Is there something ( lost weight/ exercise) that you could do tighter that might make you feel more attractive to each other

His sex drive is only going to diminish as he gets older, it won't increase. He could easily get viagra on prescription (which would, you know, actually work instead of a bloody paracetamol dyed blue bought off a dodgy site ) But that would involve him getting off his arse and going to the doctors.

If sex is unimportant to him, would he be open to you having a fuck buddy on the side?

Have you had any counselling about the infertility? It took me a long time to come to terms with my own.

There's natural ways for a man to raise his testosterone levels but unfortunately he doesn't sound interested in improving the situation. That's unfair as it's obviously making you unhappy and you should have a partner who cares about your happiness. To be honest he sounds rather old for his age.

Ah...porn! So he wasn't celibate. He just wasn't bothered about not having sex with an actual person. I think this is central to his apathy. I feel for you - it's very corrosive to be in that situation, especially at your sexual peak.

When someone tells you who they are, listen. Don't ignore them and cajole them into being someone different. He clearly doesn't want or need more frequent sex and pressuring him won't change that. Don't fall for the 'it would be a perfect relationship if it wasn't for ...'.

I'm sorry for your infertility but it isn't his responsibility to provide the 'pay off'.

If infrequent sex is a deal breaker for you then now would be the time to acknowledge it before resentment and frustration really take hold.

It doesn't matter what is normal. You aren't happy, that's the important thing. If this isn't how you'd like your life to be then you need to change something.

It came to a head last night which resulted in floods of tears (me) and I went off to a friends for a couple of hours at midnight.
He had said that when I am ill, it's a turn off. I took this the wrong way (?) and very badly. He later backtracked saying if I'm ill he doesn't feel sexy towards me but more 'fatherly' and caring. I replied that I wasn't ill , just feeling ill, and there's a difference (ie am coming off my medication). and that if i was actually ill, what would that mean, would he dump me? (he said no). He said when i'm ill it changes how he views me and he wants to care rather than shag me, kind of thing (whether this is a cop out, who knows, all i know is it doesnt help but his libido is low, end of)
We talked a bit this morning and he said he won't go to the doctors because he doesn't like his doctor (whom he only met once when registered) and doesn't like ANY doctors
I mentioned his having purchased tablets on line and he said it was fine from a reputable company but that it just didn't work for him (ie not the company's fault). I asked him how he knew they were reputable. (he's normally very down to earth, super intelligent and sensible so this does all go against the grain).
I can see myself getting nowhere on the doctor front unless something major pushes him into going where he's left with no choice
No, I haven't had counselling for it, Pocketsaviour. Last year I finished a year and a half's counselling which was for the 'fall out' of my having left domestic violence (last relationship). I know i'll probably get comments now that I got into a new relationship too soon, but he's an old friend, we go way back, and on most levels we are a very good match / partnership. I would never have taken a chance on anyone new (I wasn't actually looking, and had spent some time single) and being with him has really helped turned my life around, things are so much better on most levels

I think so much of it is physical with him but also grief that he's not dealing with. It was again brought to my attention this morning ; I'd had a dream about our beloved cat who died suddenly (young, of a heart attack) five weeks ago. I told him about the dream and he was annoyed. I asked him why he was always irritable when I talked about the cat, and tried to shut me up when I do. He said, 'because when you talk about him it makes me have to think about him, and when I think about him I can't handle it because it bloody HURTS' . In the last few years he has lost his father, and then his best friend a few months after his father passed. Both sudden. I feel he is not dealing with grief. He does not express it at all. He is scared to show emotion and tears (he's almost phobic re tears) I don't know what he was like before the deaths as we'd been out of touch many years. He's not an alcoholic (my ex was) but IS a fairly heavy/ dependent drinker. His sister is still friends with his ex and knowing my concerns , had a quiet words with her. The ex says he didn't drink that much when she was with him and feels he's definitely changed since the friend died (she was actually with him that day in a working capacity, they did stay friends too...and she was very worried about him when the news came through, especially as it was so soon after his dad)
I am not making excuses for him. but i love this man v much and trying to be gentle. I wonder how big a part the bereavements play in this. To get him to try and open up about them is like talking to a brick wall, whereas his mother and sisters are very very open about their dad and talk about him constantly (I think this makes him uncomfortable). I think he was brought up as very much, 'boys don't cry' and stiff upper lip (though somewhat ironically, his father was a mental health pioneer)
Please don't suggest counseller as he'd honestly rather die than talk about his feelings to a stranger! He can't even with friends and family. As I said, bad enough with doctors.
Re fuckbuddy...crossed my mind when i was angry/ hurt but i wouldn't/couldn't. To me, even with consent, it's cheating. My biggest fear would be if he WAS actually ok with it. My gut feeling is that he would possibly accept it given his own low libido , and pretend to be ok with it but def wouldn't be (which he'd never admit to); I couldn't risk it. Also it's just not what I want. I am an old fashioned, fairly romantic person in many ways. I would rather leave him than cheat. And I don't want to leave. We are a good team. He is loving on other levels. When we do have sex it's ok. He's affectionate or I couldn't be here. I guess i just have to deal with my own frustrations alone :-( and it's hard because I am a normal full blooded woman. I would say a normal drive but I'm also pagan and to me it's very natural and healthy. I'm 44 but most people think I'm early 30s upon meeting me, and I don't want to act old and semi celibate
He is a very old school, down to earth Yorkshire man. Very black and white and just doesn't 'do' emotion in terms of expressing. Having said that, his nickname is 'the rock' because he is so many people's rock. He works in music (also mainly rock!) and is often 'tour dad'. So despite not being paternal and having never wanted kids, he is fatherly, caring and nurturing , not just to me but to those he works with (and to friends). I do love this side of him. He shows love in practical ways and in that respect he's very like my father. He can't show emotions but he would give you the coat off his back. He takes care of all sorts of difficult people in his line of work and I admire that. So I know i can't change him and shouldn't want to ( i don't, apart from libido and therefore is perhaps some mild ED too but he'd rather stick rusty nails in his eyes than ever go there with a medic)
I guess all i can hope for is that something (non threatening) does push him into going to doctors. It could be as simple as him needing iron tablets or something . He raves about his friend being a new man by receiving testosterone injections (am guessing this is not on NHS though) but won't ask his friend about it, or look into it

Wando, if i try and be more firm, he'll call it nagging and pressure and then probably say , how is that going to make him feel sexier. but then i do have a right to approach it. He just is not a talker.

he has also told me, that his ex really wanted a baby, and he didn't, but he went along with it by at least 'not using anything'. Nothing ever happened, possibly they are both infertile (but, they weren't young either). But he said the pressure was enormous and her wanting something he didn't...it caused years of rows and split them up ultimately
so you'd think he could enjoy sex with someone he knows he can't get pregnant , so the pressure is off. :-(

I really think you are trying to make excuses for him , which is understandable.

I wonder if this is the tip of the iceberg. What other needs will you be expected to sacrifice to have the honour of his company ? You don't go out , you both have more than one job and have financial difficulties. Yet he's a heavy drinker. To what extent is his heavy drinking impacting your finances ?
Getting annoyed at you talking about your cat is absurd. Can you see how it became about him and your own feelings went ignored ?

He doesn't like his gp ? Then get a new one. What are you going to do as he ages and refuses to take responsibility for his health ? And he raves about his friend getting testosterone injections ? I think he's deliberately taking the piss.

Do you really want to be lumbered with an emotionally stunted old man who doesn't go out, isn't interested in sex , won't meet your needs, has financial problems and drinks heavily ?

Can I correct a misconception about Viagra (sildenafil), Levitra (vardenafil) and Cialis(tadalafil) etc. These PDE5 inhibitors can help a man to get an erection by increasing blood flow to the penis. But only if he is aroused and we know that's all in the mind! They don't just work automatically. Having said that though, they can help a man if he has lost confidence in his ability to 'perform'.
Low libido or sex-drive is a different matter and as far as I know can have various causes notably low testosterone which does, as someone said, decrease with age. Keeping physically fit is also beneficial. He really must get himself to a GP (male if your DP is embarrassed about it)who will probably refer him to the local ED clinic. He must do this if he loves you and cares about the relationship.
I may be able to answer specific questions by pm if you like.

Best wishes.

Rouxekbandit - very interesting. You learn something every day.

He's not going to change. You've asked him to address the things that are making you unhappy and he's refused .

So you either stay with him and accept a sex less relationship ( that doesn't sounds like much fun TBH)

Or you stay with him and have sex elsewhere - which you've said you don't want to do .

Or you leave - which you also don't want to do .

He won't change - that's true. They don't - that said, despite some imperfections he sounds like a product of his upbringing in terms of communication and possibly boozing but in general a decent guy. Can you stay with him as you are? Yes - actually you could but you'll have your current feelings magnified each year. No one here can tell you really. But you can be on your own if you choose (quite nice really if you like your own company), or with a man who is imperfect in other way, someone worse (I expect you'd leave him but might be upsetting) or someone better with a higher sex drive. Those are the possibilities for the future but it is true that the Lst is the least likely- so you need to be happy with the first option too.

Well this sounds very similar to me & exh, it was corrosive and was the death knell for my self confidence. The constant rejections, being made to feel like a randy cow just because I wanted sex more than once a month!! Awful, I wish I'd ended it before we got married as it was crap then too. Like you, we connected on every other level though and I thought it would be ok.
In hindsight (before the resentment kicked in) I could have done more, for instance being more specific about what I wanted ( he had it in his head that women only like long sex sessions but I would have been happy with a quickie) maybe that would have taken the pressure off.

It's not easy. Talking seems to be very hard with him. I wonder if you could write a letter explaining how you feel. You shouldn't have to but I think you are running out of alternatives if he won't listen.

"I mentioned his having purchased tablets on line and he said it was fine from a reputable company but that it just didn't work for him (ie not the company's fault)."

What exactly were these tablets? What were they for? Sorry, this stood out for me while rereading your posts and got me thinking.

Op please answer the above point - it could be important if he's tried something and failed because they don't work.

sorry, not had Broadband for days (still hardly working) and don't get a mobile phone signal where i live. Thanks for replies...
All I know is he got some viagra tablets over the net. i did find them under the bed at some point and they were in a box with his name on like you'd get with a regular prescription. He got testosterone over net too. he worries he can't maintain an erection for long (he can't, but i know it's typical with his age.. i've seen it with late 30s men too and know it declines with age) this is why sex doesn't last long... i think he is quick so he doesn't lose it if that makes sense. of course foreplay can be longer...
He told me that everything started changing in his early 40s and that he believes in the male menopause (he bought loads of books on vitamins,diet around that time, which he's started reading again..even took them on hol) The friend that has the testo' injections is a famous (in his genre) musician now in his 60s but with the energy of a 30 something , DP often cites this so it does bug me he won't look into it himself...
He's gone away with work and we did DTD before he left. it was me that asked if he wanted to 'go to bed' (though I think he would have instigated as usually does before going away.. though i suspect it's more that he wants to keep me happy when he does this...) It was good, not great but good, felt v close to him , it was loving...
He actually got the testo' for his sex drive...it didn't work
My ex fiance is in his late 50s and his drive was quite high (although occasional bouts of depression would kill it) but def had ED. So i'm not expecting someone in 50s to be like someone early 20s, say.
In the past couple of years i've also been out v briefly with someone in early 30s who was 'virile' yet had premature ejaculation..also someone a few years younger than me, who was totally impotent due to diabetes and obesity. We never had sex as a result. He couldn't get hard even from foreplay . I just remembered that my Dp's mum has diabetes and wondering if he has it low level (TMI sorry but i often get a bit itchy after sex.. never had full thrush in my life.. but does make me think things could be a bit 'sugary') in which case I am going to put it to him that he def needs to be checked out. Yes i will probably put it in a letter too
Thanks again for the replies.. I really wasn't deliberately ignoring..this is first day i've been able to check
It is a dilemma. Love him dearly yet feel too young to miss out on good sex life. Yet a good sex life can often mean the exclusion of a good relationship.. maybe i'm not the norm but I personally find it not the norm to have both. I've only once had a relationship that was ticking every single box (ie great lover and my best friend) and I was in 20s then) In my dreams (ie sleeping dreams) I'm v sexually frustrated..it all comes out then. In the light of the day I put what we have, over a great sex life.. but i do sometimes say to him., it would be possible to improve it..we are not old after all...he always says he's 'too tired' and happy with once a week ( but as i said..it's often less..and once a week is usually just a quicky when does happen)
He went down (no pun intended!) as one ofmy all time best shags, but we only did it the once back then, unfortunately (20 years ago)