Help me feel strong

[hurtwife]

I have posted on here before with all the details. My H has been having an affair and had left - but now says he wants to make a go of us. I am so confussed. It feels so awkward. I did a shameful thing today i looked at his phone and found that he had called her and put in a different name!!
I am getting mixed messages because i really want to believe him so much but i think i am just being walked all over. Why would he want to carry on lying to me? He didnt deny it and said it was becasue he wanted to make sure she was ok as he has ruined her life too. But as you can imagine we had a huge row, and he says he just hasnt got the enery to make us work. Am i just being niave in wanting to give this everything before declaring it dead!!
I feel so low again and need you all to make me feel strong again please.

Hi hurtwife.....yu are strong, you've come this far and are still prepared to think about making a go of your marriage despite evrything your dh has done!

I completley understand how you feel, I think men have a manual they follow in the affair situation!!!!! because yours is doing virtually line for line what mine did. He too kept in contact with her and said he felt guilty as he'd also ruined her life!!!!!! However this will not help hin, he has to realise that if he truely wants to make a go with you he has to stop all contact with her (or as much as possible if he works with her)

You are not shameful looking at his phone! He at the moment has lost the right to trust and privacy and with this recent lie he's showing he's not ready to earn it again.

I've stopped looking at my dh phone....but we are 3 years on, I still looked probably up tilll about 6 mths ago and my dh had by then realsied I had to and he understood he'd made me that way.He didn't cut all ties with HEr until he'd gone to counselling by himself and got his head sorted....it helped him realise where his priorities lay and that he had to let her "recover" alone as she too had made choices knowing his situation and he was the wrong person to help her get through it because HE was the problem! In the end she turned into a bit of a "bunny boiler" and wouldn't leave him alone, tracking down hos new phone number and work place...it was awful! He cans ee now as clear as day what a fool he was and that he actually made it worse for her by trying to still be there for her as well as taking a futher huge risk with me...at the time he couldn't see that his emotions were clouding his ratinal thinking and only counselling let him see past that.
He eventually cut all ties and when she started posting things to him at work and calling him he immediately told me, gave me the unopened letters, we evn got to the point where he rang her dh to tell him as he did then want it to stop!

You are in an awful place now......your best friend is doing the unthinkable even after all the hurt he's already caused!!! The question is are you prepared to wait for him to come to his senses? My dh came very close to me saying that's enough I won't try any more YOU have ruined it You are not doing anything to put it right!!!!

NO MORE SECRETS!!!!it has to be the only way you can stay together...he has no right as yet to privacy and should be going out of his way to tell you what he's doing , who he's with etc TRUST is not a right it is a priviledge and he's lost that now.

IF you want to still try make this work you have to dig deep inside...realise your dh is not thinking properly (no excuse I know but it is the reality) he has to do something positive to put this right and get his sense back ...he must get counselling...you cannot live like this NO MORE SECRETS it's the only way.

Thanks M
I think he wants me to kick him out. Thanks for understanding i really do think his mind is clouded. We have been to a couple of counsellig sessions the first was great the second not so good becasue he got angry. This is just not like him. I know he has an awful lot of guilt but if he really wants me he does need to show it more i just dont feel strong enough to tell him. I feel panicky that he will leave again and that i wont be able to cope. I know i will and in fact i think he finds me better when i am stronger. I know what i am to do just cant manage it at the moment. Its as if he wants to fast forward and for it to be completly ok again.
The days and nights seem so long alone.

We went to some sessions together but really at that stage it wasn't working because he wasn't being totally truthful I think because he still hadn't got in his head a reason for what he'd done and a way of dealing with the guilt and - like your dh ....he was still then trying to put things right for her as well.
We decided then to go seperately to sessions, different counsellors- it was better.After a time we started kind of counselling each other because we both, after a few sessions came away with a clearer view of what was happening and what we wanted in our relatinship. we didn't actually return to couples counselling.....we did start to talk and still do.

He's just looked over my soulder and I said I'm chatting to someone whp's dh is behaving exactly like you did (ie trying to make it right for her as well)He just said "I'm so so sorry for that...what a fool I was"

A marriage cannot work when there's a trinagle....3 people in it...and although he may have ended a physical relatinship with this woman if he is still emotionally investing in her and keeping it from you then he's still having an affair and coming between any chance of you making a go of it! You have to impress that upon him- my dh couldn't see it...I recall discovering he'd met her for lunch (after he'd ended the physical thing) he just couldn't get his head round why i lost it about it, how I felt it was a dagger in the heart again. I felt I was trying so hard to be there for him and to make things work and all along he was still betraying me and keeping dirty secrets- now when I describe it to him he can't understand how he did not see the damage he was doing. He also now accepts he only made it wrorse for her as she could not heal because he was still around.

My counsellor talked to me about how emotional thinking is very strong and how in such situations it takes someone over and stops them thinking with their head. That's hard for you who has done nothing wrong and is probably getting to the end of your patience....there is only so much "shit" you can take, even from the person you love most in the world. All I can say is be totally honest with him ,Tell him all you've said here MAKE him see...ask him how he'd feel if the tables were turned- I bet he says he couldn't cope. He has to start taking resposibilty for his actions and making decisions that proove where his priorities lie- otherwise honey (and I know , I've been ther) you will make the decision for him and there will be no coming back from there.

Thinking of you- I'm here, keep taking...you are not alone.

Thanks again
You are right I feel like such a fool. He is very down and although he says he still wants to make a go of us he is very pessimistic about it - which i can understand.
He has a lot of anger is that normal? I feel scared to fight him or put my foot down too hard in case it ends in a row and then he just says see this is why it will not work. We both know this is not going to be easy but i do believe we both want it too deep down - it is just so buried. Why dont men talk - how long before yours opened up?

It was some time before he started to fully talk- not until he'd been tocounselling. Before that he was still telling lies and witholding things from me- he said he was afraid to tell the whole truth because he was afraid I'd walk away (possibly would have done if I'd known all at the time)

He eventually started talking to a male friend (after me nagging) then he opened up to me and by that time he was seeing things more clearly. I did then insist and made it very clear to him that it would be the end if he had any contact with her without my knowledge (I even went to see her and her dh and her extended family- I needed then to bring reality into the situation....it did work in the end)

The hard bit for you now is "keeping the faith" ie that he'll come round before all is destroyed.
By the way you are far from a fool....he is doing that for both of you...as long as you are honest and true to your self you can hold your head up high!

Thanks again
I am feeling stronger i just need to believe him - i have told him i need a lot of reassurance at the moment and he is trying to do it. I know it is me that needs to feel happy with my life and not to look to him to make my life happy. He says that is all he wants as well. Although i had not been happy for a while which is why he says it all started, i know i need to do that for myself. There were so many things going on in our lives that we had little time for each, this is still a bit of a problem in fact and it feels quite false is that normal?
I just want to talk about it all the time as it is on my mind a lot and he just wants to forget about it all - agian is that normal. He is very low and trying to put it all out of his mind. He said he felt trapped but i dont want him to feel like that (i do a bit - but i think that is because i dont feel in control).
Any more help or answers to my questions would be great. There are no fixed rules i know but to know what is normalish would be a help.

Hurtwife- everything you describe I've felt in this process (and I'm sure it is a grieving process you go through)so be clear - youare not going crazy, you are not over reacting, you are not a fool.....I say this with confidence because I felt each of those things in the first few months of trying to come to terms with what happened
Your dh is acting exactly like mine did....not totally telling the truth yet, not wanting to talk to anyone about it,saying one thing and doing another, acting very confused and unhappy. It took the best part of a year for him to totally leave all these things behind and in all honesty he only really started to be happy again when he cut off all contact with her, got some counselling and started to talk to me- the truth the whole truth!(that's not me being sour grapes about her- although i'd be entitled to- but I do take some comfort from the fact that ultimately SHe made him miserable and confused!!!)

3 years on, there isn't a day goes by when I don't think about it at some point. However it is no longer the forst and last thing on my mind each day, I no longer have to go off to the toilets to cry or sob my heart out in the car when I'm alone....infact there are times now it pops into my head and I can even paush it away as I can't be bothered with the pain anymore- not always- but more and more)
My dh would happily never speak of it again...he says he's ashamed and he can't believe now how much he hurt me. He wishes he could turn the clock back and make different choices but that can't be done, so he says he want s to try to keep us in the NOW looking forwards not back. However he knows there are still times I have to revisit it and he talks.

Some tips....I know all our situations are different so I can only say what helped us:
Try to declutter your life...I dropped a few things I was involved in, I needed to turn in on my family and only that.
Try to make a date together at least once a week- agree a time you'll talk about this then a time you will try just to enjoy each pthers company again.
Try to do more as a family.....when he reaches the stage where he realises what he risked and nearly lost he will appreciate family life more even for the simple things.
Be sure ...it happens to lots of couples, especially in a long term relationship- you let life get in the way and wothout realsisng you are getting more and more distant from each other then crisis hits!
we are closer and stronger now....I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy but I do want to say in time...amd it's very slow...it can be a positive thing.
As for you going over and over it....absolutely normal, you are trying to make sense without knowing all the pieces of the puzzle- remember you don't have to forgive him but you do ahve to find some peace of mind about all this.
My counsellor said it's ;ike if you are a victim in a horrific car crash...you will play the events over and over in your mind until you make some peace with it. The oerson who caused the crash (your dh) wants never to think about the events again....made sense to me, hope it helps you. Take care honey!

Thanks again
It gives me hope to know that there are couples out there who do survive. I think it is all too easy to give up on a long term relationship saying that you have both changed. I do agree about the decluttering - i am already doing it in the childrens bedrooms. Not so sure about dropping some things - he needs to drop some work (and her!! completely) but i think i actually need to find some things for me to do, to keep me happy. At the moment this is all i cna think of and i feel very obsessive about it. I want to know that he wants to come back but i am afraid to give him ultermatiums and afraid trust him. I just to hear him say over and over again that it is us that he wants but maybe i only hear a couple of times. I try and put it out of my head and we have been on a couple of dates but it felt weird because i just wanted reassuarances all the time and of course as we are trying to be normal it feel wrong. is this ok too? Sorry to be a pain and ask lots of questions but i am looking for reassurance everywhere!!

hope you don't mind me butting in - but I do have a different perspective, because I was the one who had the affair. I won't bore you with how much i regret it, and please feel free to berate me, but here's the point.

People have affairs when they are missing something from their marriage. It might be something they should have given up on marriage or the arrival of babies(sex with strangers, your undivided attention 100% of the time) but it might be something that is reasonable to expect from a marriage (respect, affection, consideration). From his point of view, something in your marriage is missing. Do you know what it is? is it something he shouldn't be expecting - in which case he gives it up or you kick him out - or is it something reasonable? can you give it to him? (bearing in mind that for lots of men sex = love and respect and self esteem). I know it is almost impossible to think about his perspective at the moment, but if you want to move on - saving the marriage or bringing it to a civilised end - then this can be very helpful.

Of course at the same time, he will have to face up to what you need in the same way. Does he know what you need? Do you know what you need and want?

If he won't go to counselling, go on your own
Best wishes

Thanks
We have been to a couple of sessions and yes i will admit that the marriage was not in the best place when it all started. We actually almost split up in the summer (i didnt know about the affair at the time and he didnt admit it). Anyway i understood that things were not right and did my best to resolve the issues ect. Yes sex had gone a bit stale (but i have since rediscovered it - its a bit like a habbit!!), at that point i did a complete rethink and he had said things had improved and thats when guilt started to creep in for him. By then he said it had gone too far and he found it impossible to give up. Now that i know he says he wants to make a go of it. I think i do see it from his point of view but i am just finding it so difficult to put out of my mind, hence all the questions. I want to fight for my marriage and just want help in feeling strong myself (becasue i can see that he is not very strong at the moment).

I am where you are now, a few weeks ago I discovered H had been texting a woman for around two months although they both swear blind nothing else happened.

He felt the need to let her down gently WTF !
I have made it quite clear that if I discover any further contact at all he is history, he has gone to great lengths to prove he has stopped but it hard to believe him at times. He knew without me saying he had to cut all contact, why should I expect any less.

It will be tough for both of us as it will be with you and H but if it what you both really want then you will be able to do it.

Not sure when or if I will ever trust H again but as I am 8 months pregnant and in the middle of buying another house I cannot make any huge decisions at the moment.

Stay strong and fight for what YOU want and believe in but do not allow someone else to cloud your judgement, we have womens intuition for a reason

tc58, thanks for your perspective and there's no way i'd have a go at you.....I know from my experience that good people sometimes make huge mistakes.
It is good for me to hear someone else say they regret their affair....i haven't yet spoke with anyone who doesn't!
You are right affairs happen for a multitude of reasons and there must be something missing in one or both of the marriage partners at the time for one to make the choice they make. I just would like to say as a "victim" it's very easy to start blaming yourself, looking for issues and problems, things you should/could have done but my dh eventually made me realise sometimes it's just the something that's gone wrong (in him at the time)with one of the parties and ultimatley as adults we make our choices and have to live with the consiquences.

The problem I see is when someone gets themselves into an affair, they've chosen it but they stop seeing things clearly and stop thinking of the consiquences. Often the result is so destrictive it's very hard to come back from there.
Did you manage? any tips from your perspective for hurtwife?

I want to but in too Hi Hurtwife. My H had an affair and I'm sure maturer will remember my posts from early this year as what you said helped me then too. However, I truly don't believe that there was much missing from our marriage. My H is a serial dump and run kind of man. Almost every 7/8 yrs he drops the relationship and moves on. My gut feeling is that he wouldn't share me with our boys and as a SAHM I was too boring for him. She on the other hand - footloose and fancy free, intelligent, similar interests - grass is greener scenario.

Maturer your advice is marvellous and I wish my H could have given her up. But he lied constantly to me and probably even still is. However, I realise it's not my fault and my strength and self-esteem is returning.

Hurtwife he has to give her up totally, go and see her if necessary. No more phone calls. His commitment to you has to be total and the lies have to stop now. Remember we're here for you.

Hi S, thinking of you. xxxA
Keep strong, you can do it.

Sample of one, but for me having an affair was a bit like stuffing down a huge box of chocolates when you are trying to diet. you know it is bad and makes no sense and you are really going to regret it because it's going to make things worse, but it's unstoppably irrisistible and wonderful at the time. I suspect some people find it very easy to think 'i know this is making dh/dw miserable but it is my turn to have a bit of happiness'.

To answer maturer's question, I 'snapped out of it' because I simply couldn't bear the tension and guilt any more. I 'carelessly' allowed the affair to be discovered. Needless to say the consequences weren't pretty. We struggled on for a couple more years but in the end I precipitated divorce - the marriage was over before the affair started, I was only staying because I felt guilty and exhausted.

I know about the endless need for reassurance - I've been on the receiving end, and it's heartbreaking because no amount of reassurance will take the hurt away.

I hope you do manage to save your marriage, if that's the right thing for both of you. If you can manage to be very brave and focus on the marriage itself and not on the affair I think you may succeed

Hi Thanks for your support Tc58 you said the marriage was over before the affair started (i can relate to that) but once you were discovered did you believe you wanted to make a go of it? and then just couldnt handle the guilt? That is what i fear is happening. This is only early days and i know there is a lot of guilt there and anger but would he stay just out of guilt and carry on lying as that surely would add even more guilt. I suppose i have lost so much confidence that i cant believe he wants to be here, so i know i need to work on myself too. As i said there had been a lot of improvements in the marriage whether they were enough i dont know.
I know men think very differently to women and can somehow push things out of their heads - oh i wish i could do the same.
I feel so stuck at the moment and i need to move to make a fresh start anyway. Moving is always a slow process and it seems to be even longer at the moment.
I just wish i knew what he wanted so that i could help, many people have said he just doesnt know himself yet and that is the problem.
Still need to try and stay strong today, but i feel worse than when he had gone.

In my case I knew the marriage would never be what I wanted it to be, but stayed because my h was so devastated I couldn't bear to inflict more hurt. Even though I didn't married-love him any more I still cared for him, there were the children to consider, and I'd already lived in the marriage for years without being happy anyway. There were other practical constraints too, although these wouldn't have been insurmountable if I had had the strength and guts to call it a day at that point.

So I am sorry but yes on the basis of my experience, he might just stay out of guilt and care for you, and fear for what will happen if you split (do you have children?), and confusion and exhaustion, in the hope that all will somehow work out. And yes again, staying because of guilt etc just makes the guilt grow - guilt that you are pretending a love and committment you really don't feel in your heart. However, although one reason for staying at the moment may guilt, he may also really want to stay and really still love you - it can be both, which gives you something to work on.

But I'm a bit confused - is he still seeing her? Or do you think he is being truthful about checking she is ok? It is very likely that this is the truth - remember (sorry for this, painful) he has had a relationship with her, likes her, maybe even loves her, probably misses her, feels hugely guilty.

Of course he MUST break contact with her as a basic condition of you discussing staying together, but calm-but-firm is the way to achieve this. You may need to buy a punchbag to get through the next few months.

One thing I can tell you - he probably knows how much you are suffering under all this. Knowing your pain may change his surface behaviour but it isn't going to make him love you or mend the marriage. If you constantly present him with your pain, it will get in the way of your ability to assess the marriage and fix it if it's fixable.

Ask yourself - why did he have an affair? what needs to happen so it doesn't happen again? will he do that? will you do that? you BOTH need to answer these questions to move on. For example, in Alibaldi's case it looks like her h had affairs to get some footloose and fancy free action. He needed to embrace some fundamentals of married life and parenthood - commitment and monogamy. He wasn't prepared to do this, so that was the end of the marriage. Sadly, not uncommon Alibaldi - and 100% his fault.

Be clear and calm and strong with him - he is probably desperate for some leadership and guidance. you can be a jelly here with us!

There are children involved which i am finding hard to cope with! We have been together for a long time and i am happy to admit that although the marriage was not perfect he has said that he now realises i could meet all and more of his needs than she did/does.
The having no contact is an issue as they work together and although i would like nothing better than for her to disappear off the face of the earth in realality that is not going to happen and i would like to think that although tough i could handle them working together as long as he was completly honest. Silly as this sounds i too do feel sorry for her as i know she has lost an awful lot in all this mess too.
I would like to ask you tc58 did you ever think about the wife that you were hurting, i am not judging you but i dont think i could ever do that. I know mistakes happen and if it was a one off i could understand but to plan secret meetings ect - did you feel anything for the wife in all this.
I am just trying to pick up the pieces of the man i love and have known for a very long time and who i know is acting completly out of character. I wish i knew how long his low mood will last we all would love the old him back whether together or not!

There was no wife - he was separated and living alone.

I am concerned when you say he is 'acting out of character', talk about 'how long this mood will last' and 'love the old him back'. I am very sorry but something as serious as you are going through is not going to disappear, and things will never be the same again. They may be much much better if you can both sort out what you really need from each other. The future may be even nicer than the past - and it will definitely be better than the present.

Thanks
I know the future will be better than now! The trouble is how to move forward in any way if he is reluctent to talk and face up to that fact. He seems to just want to forget it and 'get on with life' - but it is just not like that.
I just want him to come out of his low mood and i think he needs to face it rather than 'hide'
I know i have to just get on with my life regaurdless but without really knowing what direction it is going in is so very hard. I dont want to give up on him.

hurtwife, you are right in thinking your dh can't hide from this- not if he wants to move on in the long term.

My dh at first wouldn't talk about it and he just became more confused and tourmented by what he'd done and his mixed emotions. He eventually said himself that he had to get his head straight and went to see a counsellor.This helped him understand why he'd done what he'd done- allowed him to let go of some of the guilt and helped him see what he really did want. From then on he started to talk to me about it and together we slowly moved forward.

Your dh needs to understand that you are both going through a trauma- granted much is of his own doing- but you cannot bury something like this, it eats away at you until it does bring you down. he has to try and discover what caused him to do what he did and what he really wants.

Another mantra for us (no more secrets- being one) is face your demonds! It's so true you cannot move on until you understand and deal with the present no matter how painful. If you can do that together then you may find, as we did that you become closer and more understanding of each other as a couple.

Thanks maturer
Maybe one day i will have your name too!! I think it may be slowly sinking in as he said he thought he may need some help today!! He is very good at telling others to ask for help (like me to get a nanny when the childcare gets too much ect)but likes to think he does not need it and as this was all his doing he needs to get himself out of it!
I am being a bit more possitive again now i cant control the situation but can manage to do what i have to do in the house and with the children.
anyway will keep you all posted and thanks for the support.

While I'm coming from a very different perspective (I won't engage in monogamous relationships in the first place) and therefore won't comment on how to solve your relationship issues, something which I am picking up is that you need something in your life that makes you feel good, hurtwife: a hobby, a sport, a craft or some sort of political or charitable cause to get involved in. It 's a good way to boost your self esteem and generally make you feel better.

Article in DM today about the warring Tarrants, he has such a flippant attitude, sounds like a 12 year old. Feel very sad for her finding out he has been going behind her back for 7 years with the other woman.