Is it time for a separation/divorce? And does that always f+@ck up the children?

[JandLandG]

I've posted in the divorce/separation Topic, (www.mumsnet.com/Talk/divorce_separation/2441681-Is-This-What-Divorce-Separation-Feels-Like) but here's a similar one with a slightly different emphasis.

We're both fairly socially conservative people, but - as I mention in the other thread- my wife just no longer seems to want me, and I'm at a point where I'm finally fed up with it so much that it seems like it might be the time to put us out of our misery.

I'm a decent, honest, educated, civilised, roll-sleeves-up-and-get-stuck-in type of fella, and she's become so insular and paranoid that everything's my fault. All the time.

Things have happened that mean I can no longer trust her judgement.

Well, (and before you say it!) perhaps she made the wrong judgement all those years ago; I took her away from a very nice working class background to all over the world and all sorts of people and new and exciting things for both of us and I thought we'd grown together to be adults who could share life in its prime with our wonderful children, but sadly it's not turned out like that.

So my question is, does divorce always fuck up the kids?

They're healthy and happy and confident now.

The last thing I'd ever want to do was to damage them. They're my only priority in all of this.

We've all read posts where people have said that they were delighted their parents split up because they would have lived in an unhappy marriage otherwise.

But is that just so much self-valedictory clap-trap?

Dunno...any thoughts/ideas/experience?

Math, I appreciate your input..,but I suspect you're starting from a different starting point than me/us.

I'm off work today and getting the kids stuff ready for going on hols next week.

They're's just so bloody much of it.

Do they really need 30 t shirts each?

2o pairs of trousers each?

8 billion pairs of shorts?!

I've mentioned that we might have a look at the amount of stuff there is to look after, but am rejected...and the new stuff just keeps arriving.

its not all cheap stuff either.

stuff needs doing, but not excessive amounts of stuff all the bloody time.

3 year old t shirts that the kids climb trees in and roll around in the garden in...do they really need ironing?

priorities.

back to the wifework thing though...always good to hear new voices and new points of view, but I note she talks a lot about 'husband maintenance' (I think that was the term)....I mean, come on.

is this the 1950s? I cant think of much of that that goes on within my peer group and friends. surely husband and wife are friends who look after each other....husband maintenance, my foot!

funnily enough though, that phrase reminds me of a trip round to my cousins a good few years ago...she's a good woman and a nice husband and family, but a bit old-fashioned. I can't remember the exact phrase but she ended up justifying buying a new frock or something by referring to the way she washed and ironed her husbands work shirts. she even looked over to my wife for a little conspiratorial nod and wink of acknowledgement...I think my wife was smirking at the time :-)

my wife and I had a little giggle about that afterwards; I iron my own shirts, but refuse to iron years-old kids t shirts that they climb trees in.

life is too short

and thanks for the analysis of the wine v ironing thing, but as with everything I mentioned, I wouldn't use a one -off incidence unless it was representative of dozens and dozens of other similar occasions.

thanks again.

Im your other thread you say you will continue to lead and guide.........just saying.

Has your wife had any help for her depression/OCD?

Sorry but you are being an arse
If her standards mean that she feels that the children have as much right to ironed t shirts as you do to ironed shirts then you need to wind your neck in and iron some simple shirts when you are doing your shirts.
It is all very well you getting her to bend to your way of thinking but I bet if you would help her (rather than try to change her) you would get a more receptive wife.
If she doesn't feel she can have a glass of wine until the jobs are done then get on your knees and do the kitchen floor with her. You must by now have noticed all the things she does before settling down for the evening... Perhaps just do some of those things without being asked or without offering. Just do some stuff!
It may be irrelevant to you but for her it is important.

I doubt they really have that many clothes? Clearly you have not been buying the clothes or having any part in the process of laundry or you might not have asked that question. Children need a lot of clothes or you end up washing every single day. Active children going off on holiday need to bring plenty of clothes or someone ends up using holiday time to do laundry.

Clothes need ironing as much to finalise their drying by the application of the hot iron as much as to get wrinkles out.

You are starting to sound like someone with an assumption that he should be in command, who bumbles into a situation that someone else has well in hand and throws his opinions around, with no respect for the fact that yes this is your home, but it is also your wife's turf/workplace. Unless your wife has asked for your help in sorting out her problems with the ironing (or whatever else you think she is doing wrong) then I think you should back off.

Would you welcome her well-intentioned remarks made without much thought, and just based on a surface level analysis of what she sees, about the efficiency of the procedures you have in place in your office? Presumably you have given some thought to how things are done there.

I think you should do your wife the honour of really thinking about ironing instead of judging her approach to it based on your priorities. You need to start by respecting her priorities more and assuming that she has good reasons after so many years, for doing what she does the way she does it.

A husband in a house takes seven hours of weekly upkeep on the part of the housekeeping party.

Nobody irons in our household. I don't know how we manage but at least one less argument to have to have

I don't iron. My husband does his work shirts. His choice. But if he started ironing everything and then got shirty with me because I didn't I'd be mighty cheesed off.

Why should the OP iron, just because his wife does? Clearly he thinks ironing is a big waste of time & I agree with him on that.

I would have a massive argument with my husband if he expected me to iron... If he wants to do it, he is welcome to do as much as he likes but it's a no area for me.

I agree. I don't iron. Only did husbands work shirts. Minimal housework, spend my time enjoying life as it will all be over one day and all the ironing and other unnecessary waste of time chores will be irrelevant then.

But that was my whole point. It is totally irrelevant if you iron or not. She wants to the wife who is a grown adult has chosen it as a priority. His job is not to tell her she shouldn't do it. At all.

You sound quite nice from your posts. I think your marriage is over I can understand why you want to give up.

I don't think it always "fucks up "the kids but the process is very difficult to manage. Esp with a relationship of hostility and conflict with your ex. So it's tough. But you sound like you have a strong relationship with your children :) so you will just be there for them and make sure they know you are..

Another one here who doesn't iron, I don't even own an iron! If you shake the creases out properly when you hang the laundry then it's fine. Ironings a fucking mugs game imo.

Your wife sounds like my friends wife. Her inability to take responsibility for her own life/happiness, and low self-esteem combined with giant ego and sense of entitlement makes her a joy sucking dementor who's only happy when she's miserable and resents anyone who isn't. She'd rather others were miserable like her rather than do anything to make herself feel happier.

Life's too short to live with someone like that.

For the record, I don't iron either.

Those who do have chosen to do it and they have a perfect right to choose to do that.

The problem is not whether she needs to iron or not. The problem is her DH thinks it is fine to tell her how to run the house when she has not asked his opinion on how to run the house.

The OP appears to have vanished.
Probably busy ironing.....or drinking wine in the garden.

I think if you would spend more time trying to understand and cherish your wife's and her efforts around the home and less time trying to make her do things that you think she should do or criticising her hard work on organising and packing the kids clothes for your upcoming holiday then you'd probably have a much more receptive wife.... If I were her I would feel like what I had chosen to do/my priorities/work wasn't appreciated or respected by my husband. Spend less time commenting on 'why have the kids got so many clothes? Why does a 3 year old's tshirt need ironing? Why are we taking so many clothes on holiday?' and you might find your wife wants to spend more time with you and is more warm and loving towards you. It doesn't sound like you are being very understanding or respectful to her. It may feel like you are as you keep saying you think of yourself as a 'nice fella' but really your comments are undermining and annoying. Imagine your wife asking you 'why are you doing that??' or 'do you really need to do it like that?' or 'why are you working now why don't you relax?' when you were not only working but in general just going about your daily business..Would it make you feel like relaxing with her in the garden with a glass of wine and chatting to the neighbours with her? I can only speak for myself but it would make me want to scream 'FUCK OFF !!!!!' It's stifling and shows no respect for what she has chosen is important to spend her time on. Or what she NEEDS to spend her time on eg. packing for holiday...packing for kids for holiday is SO much more stressful than you think...the amount of stuff that you need to organise and bring with you just so everyone can relax on holidays is the reason you end up needing a holiday in the first place ! Ha ! Ok that is exaggerating a bit but I hope you get my point? My first port of call in your situation is seek to better love, understand, care for and respect your wife...then you will create a lovely environment for your kids and better still you will be showing them how a real man treats, appreciates and validates a woman and turn yourself into the 'nice fella' that you think you are...but it doesn't sound like you're really responding to your wife's emotional needs if she is displaying this amount of unhappiness in what you describe as a nice happy healthy home....Surely something is pissing her off...Maybe it's your behaviour towards her? Try and be aware of that and change that and see if it makes a difference in your interactions/relations with her before you consider divorce !!

P.s. The Caitlin Moran book...or similar..if my husband gave me that I would just think 'he wants me to be more like her' and be quite sad or offended. Maybe she feels like YOU don't love HER the way she is. Not the other way around....?

Sorry I just want to reiterate.... Just try for a second turning your thoughts on their head.... Wouldn't it much more kinder and loving to relate to your wife like this:

"Baby I love how you put so much care into the boys t-shirts and making sure everyone's clothes are in order, you really don't have to, but you do go above and beyond and I love that about you. I can't wait to be on holiday with you so we can relax together...Is there anything you need me to help you with so the packing gets done?"

Now THAT would make me want to fuck my husband...... & have glass of wine with him as equals, as lovers, as friends...

"Do they kids really need THAT many t-shirts??? Why does a 3 year old's t-shirt need ironing he's just gonna climb trees in it love !!!" -- THAT would make me want to flick my husband quite pointedly in the head, quite frankly. And maybe think about fucking the handsome guy who works at the dry cleaners, instead.

Sorry but if my DH called me "Baby" that would be a deal breaker.
OP, do your DW a favour and go for the divorce.
She will be so much happier without you breathing down her neck at every opportunity.

MagersfonteinLugg ok ok sorry insert whatever affectionate term or pet name OP is comfortable with - ! !?

Baby is really a very mild/normal term compared to what some people call each other...

But I agree maybe he would be doing her favour by divorcing.

Another one who doesn't iron, but then I would be so much more into drinking wine in the garden that my house is an eternal tip.

I think what mathsanxiety says about how to divorce is good advice, OP.

"well i don't iron" x n
point spectacularly missed

I just picture eepies suggested way of the OP speaking to his wife as a Barry White voice over cheesy 70s music. Any sentence that starts with 'Baby' has lost me.

Anyway, it is a pack of lies ' love how you put so much care into the boys t-shirts and making sure everyone's clothes are in order, you really don't have to, but you do go above and beyond and I love that about you'

The OP emphatically does not feel that and I don't think it moves things forward to start lying to keep his wife happy. Honesty is the basis for an equal and mutually satisfying relationship.

The OP does not love his wife's care of the boys t-shirts, he thinks it is a big fat waste of time (so do I, as it happens). Honest discussion is required to see if this marriage can move forward, not a patronising 70s style head pat for the little woman.