Give up or fight on?

[Notapassingphase]

I've been with DP for 15 happy years. Solid relationship, 3 DC. We were both atheists when we got together and until recently, but I've recently started thinking that maybe I believe in God. For DP this is a complete game changer. Everything that I thought was solid about our relationship seems to be, for her, dependent on my remaining an atheist. I'm not, and never will be, and kind of fundamentalist anything and my politics, my feminism, my lesbianism, my moral values are all the same as they have ever been (and match hers). But she is seriously talking about moving out in 6 months if I haven't given up this nonsense. So, should I (a) make myself stop believing - I was an atheist before so if I try hard enough/ read the God Dulusion (again) etc it might be possible? (b) pretend to do (a) but just secretly believe, and conceal my faith, (c) accept that I can't make her stay, and that we have grown apart, and put my energy into ensuring the DC are put first in the eventual separation, or (d) not let her make this the be all and end all and fight for my marriage tooth and nail?

I've been working at (d) but it getting harder each day. Wwyd?

Regarding real god - this thread isn't about that, and I'm not taking the bait! We can have that conversation another time.

bathtime I understand that it's really hard for her. She's not being a pita for he hell of it, she is genuinely distressed. But yes I am shocked that our future seems to be conditional on this. Some pp say it represents a major change in my values but I don't believe it does. My morals have always been pretty similar to what I would call 'real' Christian values anyway (as are hers) so it's not as if my sense of right and wrong has shifted.

You ask wwwd.

I think I'd be all out of patience and understanding by now.

I'd tell her this was proof that my values hadn't changed and I hadn't become a Christian martyr prepared to put up childish ultimatums and brinksmanship about my personal ontological beliefs.

She'll move out in six months if you don't believe what she wants??

It doesn't sound like it's your beliefs and values that are the problem here.

Is the 'God' you 'maybe believe' in the god of man-made religion or more akin to the God particle?

When thinking of 'God' do you visualise an old man in the sky hurling down thunderbolts of disapproval at those who do not worship him and/or his son, or a power/force/being which transcends human comprehension?

To my mind, aetheism is every bit as illogical and repressive as any other faith which requires its devotees to maintain it as being the 'one true' relgiion and it isn't necessary to have a constant unwavering belief in either the existence or non-existence of 'god' in order to conduct one's life in an intellectually or spiritually enriching manner.

Yes bathtime I suppose it's because I'm starting to feel my patience running out that I started this thread today.

goddess more the latter I suppose though I am wanting to go to church too so maybe both. Tbh, Christianity may be the deal breaker but I'm not convinced she wouldn't respond the same if it were Buddhism or Wicca or anything else.

People change over such a long time, and 15 years is a long time. I think for a marriage to last you need to give space to the other person to explore and to grow. If that respect for the other person's autonomy is there, then this doesn't necessarily need to threaten the relationship. I think if your DP only wants the relationship if you are an atheist then she is not respecting you as an individual. Does she see you as an extension of herself? Or is there some other hidden reason she wants out of the relationship?

It sounds awful talking about it all the time. I suggest a ban on the topic for a while, so you can see what else there is in the relationship - that might make things clearer.

I became a Christian 10 years ago and my DP was not comfortable with it. DP thought that I would try to convert him and in his words "become boring" and not drink/have sex/become prim and proper etc - this didn't happen :)

The only way we got through it was by compromise. I attend Church every Sunday but no other meetings (which I would like to do but thats the compromise) I also do not discuss my faith with him at all.

I can only emphasize and suggest you keep talking and explaining that by having a faith does not change you as person. Hope it works out for you.

Are ideas more important than relationships? She sounds quite wooden and not very open to change. This phase is challenging you to either grow together or face a break up. If it is so fundamental to her then compromise will be hard. However the ability to compromise and be flexible really helps to keep long relationship. Have you considered couple counselling?

I feel a bit sorry for the partner, she's not here to defend herself and the OP says she is distressed, not stroppy.

And bathtime I think you are both missing the point and stirring the pot.

You're not even allowed to change your mind about something nobody can ever be certain of?

That's pretty weak.

It's not about the proveability of the existence of a god (which, surprise, we are not going to manage on this thread btw) or the lack of certainty on which this hinges. It's not about having a strong or a weak case for belief or not. If the OP needed that - or if any religious person needed that - in order to have fatih, they wouldn't have faith! That's what faith is - it's faith,a trust, a gamble, a leap into the unknown - am I making sense? The OP's faith could be founded on rock or sand (to coin a phrase) but she still has it - and it doesn't rely much on facts or circumstance by the sound of it.

And I don't think it is this either:

How can a person thinking they might believe in some kind of deity be a "deal breaker"?

This question minimises the problem. Of course it matters. Faith is a thing that matters hugely to the people who have it. The OP recognises the size of it. It is not like changing your mind about whether you prefer Corrie to Eastenders. It's the old stick of rock thing - it runs through you, end to end. Both the OP and her partner appear to recognise this, unfortunately it is as big as a deal-breaker. I don't think it is shallow, weak, (or lacking in respect) or too 'conditional' to see it as such. It must be very sad for both of them. And I can see that OP is being as honest as she can be. But there is a price.

Thanks majestic it is awful. I've tried to suggest we don't talk about for a while but it's like an itch she can't not scratch. I don't think there's a hidden reason she wants out of the relationship. I do think we are very entangled - as lesbians are wont to be (sorry, stereotype, but accurate in our case) - joint friends, interests etc. The inevitable separateness of this is one of he issues for sure.

slippers I am glad it has worked out for you. That's exactly the kind of compromise I'm hoping for.

lost yes we have. I'm not sure if she wants to but I will certainly try and insist if it really ends up with her wanting to leave me. You are right that she does not like change (understatement of the century).

What has led to your change of heart with regard to religion?
Why is she so so very devastated?
There is more to this and you're both clearly highly intelligent women and getting mired in high octane hypothetical discussion
Return to basics ?

words I tried to explain what has led to it up thread, in short, nothing much just a gradual realisation that I didn't agree with myself anymore. She is devasted for reasons also explained above. I don't think it is high octane hypothetical discussion it is not complicated, just two incompatible viewpoints clashing head on. It's not that I want her to accept my faith, I just want her to be able to ignore it. She can't.

I can't think why she has a problem with you becoming religious. Look at all the tolerant loving Christians like the ones on this thread who have basically been calling her an intolerant idiot she'll be meeting thanks to your new religious connections.
I hope you plan on protecting her from people like that. Why should your choices result in her being judged and called names?

I really feel for you as you are in a really difficult situation. I can understand how your DP is probably confused and possibly scared that you are having a change in your personal beliefs, but it is completely unreasonable for her to hold her love to ransom.

I was raised RC so know what it's like to be criticised for not conforming(I was a goth and LGBT activists in a convent school!), however like anything there are extremists in all religions and those who have hatred against others for having different beliefs to their own or any beliefs for that matter. I don't know about her situation and if that has had an impact on how she is currently feeling or why she is an atheist but I know how difficult it can be to be gay and RC however attitudes have changed dramatically in the past 10 years.

BUT threatening to leave you for having a belief is as bad religious people who cut out loved ones for being gay!

I don't know if you are going to choose a religion to follow or if like me you just believe there is something more than this life but you both will need to compromise if you want to make it work. Perhaps speak to a councillor or look at some Progressive Christian books or websites such as Kissing Fish which focus on the positives of religion i.e. peace, love, acceptance rather than hatred and discrimination. Either way, she is not setting a great example to your DCs and this can't be easy on them either.

I really hope you can try and work it out, if she really loves you she would at least try to be somewhat understanding rather than risk tearing your family apart x

The key to this is what it means to her for you to have faith and how it is such a threat. When people take an extreme position, it is sometimes a psychological defence mechanism and possibly in this case a reaction against her own doubt. A lot of ex-RC people have doubt and/or Catholic guilt and as a committed atheist, any strand of doubt is obviously unacceptable to her psyche, so she must eliminate it by adopting an extreme view point.
Anyway, like I said before, I think I would try and ban the topic for a while if you can, and get some breathing space. But failing that, then I would try and persuade her towards relationship counselling. A third party might help you to uncover the meaning of her position a bit more. It might also help you untangle the enmeshment a little bit too, and get some healthier boundaries (if that is an aim).

Thanks MBT. Good tips, will look at those websites. We are trying hard to conceal it all from the DC, it was more of an issue in the first week or so but I think they think we're over it now. Hope so anyway.

majestic yes that is good advice. She wants to do therapy on her own in fact to work out why her reaction has been so extreme, but we probably do need couples counselling too.