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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Awful awful relationship with ds1

52 replies

winkywinkola · 21/06/2015 14:01

He's ten.

Today he cut up his sister's magazine because she said something to annoy him.

Last night he tore up a sign she made for her door because she said something unkind to ds2.

Today he told me my breath smells so bad his ears have gone numb when I asked him to pick up his coat.

He teaches ds3 obscenities like sticking up two fingers. Ds3 is 2 years old.

He throws toys in anger. Pens that shatter against walls leaving ink splatters.

He deliberately will keep the whole family waiting for 15+ minutes whilst he doesn't get dressed, blows his nose or looks for a book he 'needs'.

We are not soft touches as parents. Nothing works to improve his behaviour.

He had had long rages since he was two. They are fewer now but his acts of cold spite and anger are very upsetting.

I look forward to when he's left home. Nobody can help. He's on the waiting list for MIND who apparently are taking over some of CAMHS work. To reduce their waiting lists.

He's an angel at school. Not at all popular but academically very able.

It's just always so very unpleasant if we need him to do something. Unless we just leave him to watch telly for hours or play on his tablet.

Does anyone else have this kind of behaviour in their docs?

OP posts:
PolterGoose · 04/07/2015 09:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
winkywinkola · 04/07/2015 10:05

I don't use any techniques apart from asking him over and over politely to do a task. Then I lose my temper.

I don't know he's got any type of condition. How do I find out?

Right now my fantasy is for h to move out with ds1 and I live with the three younger dcs

OP posts:
Newquay · 04/07/2015 10:17

Winky hang on in there xxxxx I have ds of 3 and sometimes fear he has what I guess isPDA. Seems like some good links here. Get some time alone, grab a tea and a cake and breathe then look up stuff. Big love and thanks for starting this post - u r helping others as well as your own situation. Atta girl xx

jayho · 04/07/2015 10:25

You are helping others, I opened this thread because I have a similarly difficult relationship with my ds1 and similar fantasies about 'when he grows up and goes away'. I've felt dredful about it.

I've just followed some links to PDA and it's him, to a t.

I feel so relieved, I feel like I've got something I can work with now, so thank you Flowers

Original poster
winkywinkola · 04/07/2015 10:39

Just crying and crying. Screaming row with h.

OP posts:
tittyboomboom · 04/07/2015 10:40

Oh winky. Who is rowing? You and your husband or you and your son?

PolterGoose · 04/07/2015 10:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Lovepancakes · 04/07/2015 10:54

I think what schlong says is very important. I'd say all your telling off (an understandable reaction) is turning into a vicious cycle of him feeling rejected and behaving badly again. I'm sure there's something more going on that the right professional should help with but in the meantime some positive interaction or finding reasons to praise him , however small and hard to do, might be useful.
Id try the advice of the poster who suggested love bombing too, I think this is good for any child but especially here

BettyCatKitten · 04/07/2015 10:59

Op I'm sorry you're having such a hard time.
Its understandable that you feel you want your DH and ds1 to move out and you have the younger ones. I'm guessing these feelings may have led to the arguement.
You need to speak to your Dr about how you feel and your sons behaviour and see if there are any services in your area for help. My friends dd was similar and they were offered family therapy which worked very well for them. Plus I think you need some support for yourself.
I really hope you can get some help as you're obviously exhausted by it all. All the bestFlowers

JCLNE · 04/07/2015 11:20

So...he's the eldest of four siblings, right?

Does he get any privacy at home? Quiet time to spend reading alone or similar? One-to-one time with you and his father?

From where I sit, he sounds exhausted. He's doing well at school and behaves reasonably well...and then he goes home to a household of stress and constant scolding.

When/how does he get to relax and let of steam? What does he do to recharge his batteries?

LeChien · 04/07/2015 11:33

My son is very similar. He has just got a diagnosis of PDA.
Using PDA strategies (reducing demands, using other ways to get him to do things so they're not direct demands, trying to make sure he feels in control and has choices) has really helped.
Being strict parents made things unmanageable.

ImperialBlether · 04/07/2015 11:47

It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if he lived with his dad and you lived with the others, would it?

It sounds as though he would be less stressed, given he does what his dad tells him to do.

You would be less stressed.

His siblings would definitely be less stressed. I had a similar sibling and I would say all of us were disturbed for many, many years afterwards. Never underestimate the damage one sibling can cause for the others.

What would be your husband's reaction if you suggested he and your son lived separately, though nearby, for three months?

Pagalee · 04/07/2015 11:47

He sounds a lot like my DS, who has Asperger's Syndrome and Pathological Demand Avoidance.

PDA in particular can make children seem like absolute monsters at times, but the root cause of the behaviour is anxiety, which presents in an extreme need to avoid demands made on them and to control their environment.

Have a look at the PDA Society website.

Don't mean to be 'Dr Mumsnet' (I'm not qualified to diagnose your child!- and I think a CAMHS referral is a good thing - but the strategies used to deal with children with PDA are quite different from typical parenting advice, so may be worth looking into them.

Good luck.

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 04/07/2015 11:52

I was going to suggest PDA as well. It's definitely worth looking into - because if it is that then the "bad" behaviour is usually anxiety-driven. I have a friend whose DD2 is at the start of being assessed for it, she has all the signs but is only 5 so it could take a while. However, since my friend researched it, and researched ways to handle it, she has managed to improve her DD2's behaviour quite a lot by changing her own responses. It's definitely making a difference, even pre-diagnosis.

Aussiemum78 · 04/07/2015 12:04

What about clear rules for the routine (dressing, being on time) with the reward being time on his tablet? Same expectations, same reward every single day. No tablet before he meets those expectations every day.

Make the standards clear and basic. Ie you are dressed every day at 8am, your book is ready the night before.

You could go further with pocket money for specific behaviours. Demand respect and give him a chance to "be good".

Asking nicely doesn't get him acting, that's not his currency and you end up stressed. Then you blow up. Then he retaliates. It sounds like a negative cycle for you both.

desertmum · 04/07/2015 12:32

My DS is now a late teen, but we have had a mixed relationship over the years. What I do know now is that when he was difficult I focussed on that to the extent that I didn't see any of the good stuff. I was always expecting him to do something wrong not something nice.
I altered my behaviour and started rewarding good behaviour which at times was very very hard because there was little to find. But it worked, slowly. He often felt sidelined against his DS as he felt we were closer and he was on the outside. I made some just him and me time to try and get things back on track.
We still get into cycles of negative behaviour with me only seeing the bad stuff, not the good where every single conversation turns into an argument. He is older now tho and I am (slightly) wiser and we manage it better.

Not sure this helps, but just to let you know you are not alone.

tittyboomboom · 04/07/2015 13:17

Sorry, I posted too soon before.

I'm sorry you're going through this. I have a friend who is going through something similar and it's hard to know what to say when she is upset about it all. There has been some great advice on this thread.

I hope the tension doesn't come between you and your husband. If you can try and be a solid team and agree on what should be done, it should make it that less stressful.

Flowers for you.

BeyonceRiRiMadonnna · 04/07/2015 13:20

OP it's so sad to read this as I'm currently supporting my friend due to her 10 year old who we all love and adore who has in the last year all of a sudden developed behavioural issues.

At first we thought it was the school, got various professionals involved and finally changed schools......he's now been at new school for 2.5 months and has been suspended 6/8 times. He went to write an exam for grammar school on Thursday, he was there for 2.5 hours and by the time my friend arrived he'd punched two other children and the parents were ready to call the police.

This thread is helpful as we are all rather stressed about all of this and really don't know what next? He's got a therapist, but my poor friend is REALLY struggling and I'm so so scared for the both of them. It is heartbreaking to resent your own child........makes me cry because she's just so SO stressed and I think she's about to crack and even though I/we know he loves his mommy, he's a changed little boy and we just don't know what to do anymore, we are all just waiting for the next thing to happen....

I'm sorry, No advice, I feel your pain.....

Waitingforsherlock · 04/07/2015 13:55

I thought PDA too. The PDA society has a great checklist. It's not diagnostic but very useful. My dd scored very highly on it and has just been diagnosed with HFA.

Flowers
Waitingforsherlock · 04/07/2015 13:57

Imposing, (or trying to), my will upon her makes everything ten times worse by the way. She's 12.

goodcompany2 · 05/07/2015 15:09

My youngest son was "somewhat difficult to parent"; drove me almost to edge if sanity! I stumbled across a book called "just like his father" (not great title). After having read a dozen or more self help books that I couldn't identify with, this one clicked for me! Not saying yr son is like mine or my exh, but I have lent it out to friends & there are some very positive strategies in it for dealing with negative behaviour. The author is marmite and reviled more than loved but that was irrelevant to me as it helped me cope and parent when I had all but given up managing. Good luck. X

Portabella24 · 05/07/2015 20:43

I don't normally post on these sorts of problems because I am wary about giving the wrong advice. I could, however, have written your post 2-3 years ago. Two posters have already mentioned love-bombing. Cheesy name but it completely broke the cycle for us and DS1 is a different boy. It is difficult to start and impossible if you are stressed. You sound at breaking point and need to find some way of looking after your needs too. Do try it and I am sending you lots and lots of good thoughts. You sound like you are a great mum.

Iamalwayswrong · 23/07/2015 08:43

What is love bombing?

MarkRuffaloCrumble · 23/07/2015 09:01

a bit like desertmum says, Iamalways - spending some one to one time with them, looking out for the good stuff and praising it. It's really difficult when you're going through a tough patch but I suppose turning things around so that your child feels loved and appreciated rather than always being told off sounds like a good place to start.

I routinely try this with my DS and it usually lasts about a day, but when I try not to have such negative expectations and say yes to at least some of his demands (instead of the default no, just because it's HIM asking!) it makes both of our lives a bit easier just for a little while.