DB sectioned and blaming family / aggressive

[goteam]

Would love advice from anyone who has experienced similar. DB sectioned in March. Has bipolar and severe addictions (hard drugs and drinks excessively) Is late 20's and has never held down job for longer than a few weeks, left school at 15 and can't maintain own accommodation so lived with our elderly parent but trashed house, had drug binges there with others. Was aggressive and behaving unpredictably, hence section but DB is being very aggressive towards his family. We have all helped as much as we can in the past but with children of my own now I'm actually sick of it. DB is manipulative and only calls for money. He had a sad childhood, we all did though.

How do others deal with this? I have tried to emotionally detach as my priority is my kids (1 and 3) and I have a demanding job. Toddler says she is scared of DB. Im sympathetic to him but I just don't think you can let childhood experiences take over and need to let go. DB dwells but isn't interested in therapy. Just wants to be able to live rent free with parent, fed etc free of responsibility and for family to give him money when benefits spent. No desire for work or any kind of positive future. Very angry at us all for not allowing this to continue. Any advice welcome. Parent has enabled in the past which I have always tried to stop but now handouts are expected.

Hi mamadoc I know I just don't like the way he has to put everyone else down. The problems did sort of start in later teens and diagnosis in early 20s. Before this he was aimless and unmotivated but nice company and funny.

goteam I want to apologise for the way my post came across last night. It sounds a lot harsher than I intended. That will teach me to post briefly late at night when tired.

I do have experience of bipolar, with self- medicating drug abuse. The point I was trying to make is that your DB is ill. As mamadoc says, the nasty, destructive, grandiose behaviour will most likely be generated by the mania. It is not the real him. He needs medical help, which it sounds like he hasn't been getting. Or at least not in a comprehensive fashion that could lead him to conquer the addiction and learn to live as best he can with his illness. As mamadoc says, the right meds regime will be crucial.

It sounds like you have done all you can to help him, and it is well past the stage where mental health services should take over. However, with the cuts to services this may not be easy to achieve unless you as a family step back and make it clear you are no longer in a position to be his unofficial carers.

I do sympathise with all you have been through. It's extremely upsetting and has had a very deleterious effect on your own life. I hope he gets proper help for all your sakes, and you can concentrate on your DCs.

I should have said all this last night, rather than fire off a short post. I just wanted to make the point that he is seriously ill, rather than a bad person. I didn't mean to denigrate your efforts, or the effect this had on you. I hope you all get the help you need.

Alaughaminute you are right. I don't want my kids around him. When I took my newborn over with toddler last summer there were used syringes on the the bathroom floor. We ended up booking into a hotel and it's affecting the grandparent relationship. I think we are going to have to care from afar.

I'm not going to withdraw my comments. You didn't make it at all clear that you were talking about addictions being enabled rather than mentally disordered behaviours. And it's very kind of you to assume I haven't multiple close relatives with mental health issues (including Bipolar Disorder) and have never personally faced adversity.

You say that you all had a sad childhood as if that means his can't have contributed to his very real mental disorder. Almost as if he is somehow weak for having been the only one to end up like this. I really don't see much understanding in your OP at all, no. I get that this might not be how you really feel but it's certainly how your OP comes across to me.

And I do believe my advice was that you need to step back and let other people learn to stop enabling his more damaging behaviours. You really can't make anyone change their approach directly, it would only be by withdrawing yourself and making your stance clear. I understand that you probably missed that advice while reacting so much to my post.

smilla you have a nasty confrontational attitude and you didn't give any advice in your initial post. Anyone in the know realises that enabling behaviours are attributed to addictions. How on earth do you 'enable' bipolar?!

There has been plenty of excellent advice from knowledgable and experienced people who don't feel the need to lay into carers in crisis. As I said, I just hope you don't have any kind of caring role at work. You and flumpty obviously feel bad about being so flippant as you have both returned and are now echoing other advice given.

I suggest you look at your own attitude and maybe read both of our initial posts again.

I returned because I wished to stand by my comments, I think that's pretty clear.

I really suggest you should step back from the situation with your DB for your own sake, you are clearly not handling it well, which is understandable, though you do not need to take on so much responsibility for him - he is not your child and you do not need to define yourself as his 'carer' if you do not feel up to the task. I may have missed it when skimming the thread but I don't think he lives with or particularly near you when not sectioned, does he? If anyone is his carer it is your parents, and they need to allow other services to take over if they cannot cope. I know that it might be hard to get them to do so, and hard to watch them struggle, though.

Smilla
I think you are being very hard on the OP. You are way off the mark in terms of seeing it from her perspective. I doubt very much from your posts, that you have ever been on the same side of the fence as the OP and had to deal with a close relative with MH and addiction issues.

I use 'carer' in its loosest sense to mean families. There is no paid carer. I'm really not sure why you're being so confrontational and agree with ohdear that you are unlikely to have experienced what I'm describing. Anyone who has would be empathetic, supportive and understanding.

I've never dealt with a close relative with addiction issues, no, beyond my closest aunt that died relatively young of her alcoholism while trying to escape an abusive relationship a couple of years ago. Are we moving the bar now? Where did I suggest there was (or was likely to be) a paid carer?

I was hard on the OP in my first post because the OP read rather badly, to me. Now I just don't appreciate the OP's repeated attempts to hit below the belt. I struggle to see how such a person can magically only be a positive influence on people IRL if she's so aggressive online.

OP I have a relative who has been sectioned, and I just wanted to offer you some support and a hand hold, if you need it.

Although the mental health problem of my relative was very different to the one your DB has, I know that the section in itself is unpleasant, and families tend to feel a stigma, as if they haven't done enough so the state has to step in.

Of course, that isn't true, and we should feel no shame at all, but it's not always easy!

I think you should support your parent rather than your DB at the moment. In particular, try to be united in not giving money for drugs, drink etc. Your brother is at least 'safe' in hospital, and you all need this time to regroup and recover a bit.

I don't think you should expose your children to this level of illness, especially if they have expressed worry / fear already. My children were much older, but still found all the odd experiences they had in my relative's company rather scary!

When the time comes for your brother to be discharged, be very firm with SS about what you are and are not prepared to do! Better to promise only a little, rather than too much and it all go wrong later.

I hope your DB gets good treatment and you find a way through this as a family.

allinall thanks for the support. I know what you mean about the associated stigma and I guess . DB uses social media a lot and I'm very private so I feel as though everyone knows our family business. Maybe it used to be kept within the family more. It's obviously good that we have structures within the state.

Smilla, until you have a very close family member sectioned, you will never understand the sheer gravity of it all.

Goteam - my relative worked in computing, and literally volumes and volumes of nonsense went viral. After a while the humiliation of it turned in to acceptance, as I realised it was part of the illness. Always remember people know he is ill. (Or if they don't, they soon will.)

Oh no! Yeah, it's quite clear from social media etc that DB is ill but I feel sorry for the way he puts himself across.

Oh yes, I see - sorry!
You wonder how it can all end up on such a sad level, when once they were young and happy, and full of future promise. So very sad :-(

I know. I will always seem him as the teenager having a tough time at home but funny and charming with it but he's not that kid anymore and once you're an adult (mental health problems aside) you are in control and have to be responsible for your choices. Just sad for everyone involved and I have so much sympathy for others going through similar.

I often think serious mental illnesses are the most difficult for loved ones to deal with, essentially you lose the person you loved and knew

One of my biggest dreads for my Dc is schizophrenia or bi polar having seen what I have over the past 20 or so years. You now need to do what is best for you and your family as tough as that is. And for me your first op was very clear in expressing just what you are having to deal with.

mrscain that's exactly it. So hard to deal with.

I worry about that too. Every generation has had addiction / alcoholism / mental health problems.

And thanks for confirming that the OP was clear. Those of us who have been there or who work in mental health know the countless hours you spend researching the condition and prognosis when a loved one is first diagnosed. I didn't feel a thorough explanation of bipolar was needed to demonstrate my understanding!

You would be surprised at how many people seem to have zero understanding/acceptance of mental illness, even when it affects people very close to them (perhaps because of that, sometimes). You see people demonstrating that on here quite often. In that context, I really do not think my interpretation of your OP was so ridiculous.

I was concerned first and foremost for what your DB might be going through with a potentially unsympathetic relative who still felt the need to be involved. Surely you can see how that might impede a mentally unstable person's recovery and that it would be a concern?

Seriously, stop thinking that a negative comment can only come from a place of wanting to kick you when you're down rather than a genuine interpretation of your OP.

I'll also point out to OhDearMuriel that I had already alluded to my close (and less close) relatives with mental illnesses of varying kinds, and I mentioned addiction specifically because addiction was now being thrown in as another thing I needed to have personal and close experience of in order to post a reply (hence the 'moving the bar' comment) - not because I don't have experience of family members with mental illness. I do.

goteam, I think you should be relieved on your DB's behalf if you think all mentally ill people's close family members spend time carefully researching, understanding and accepting their mental illness(es). You seem to have seen only one side of the coin. I won't suggest you 'haven't been there' just because you seem to be ignorant to the fact that it can be different to your situation, though.