When do I have 'the talk' about moving from FWB to gf/bf?

[harryjustshagsally]

I'm a very regular poster but I've name changed for this because my back story will out me.

So I had a ONS with a guy I instantly felt a connection with in November. I was in a very bad place due to a previous relationship and couldn't handle anything else. He asked me out on a date but we both screwed it up by communicating badly so it never happened.

Fast forward to 8 weeks ago and we hooked up again and this time have had a series of weekend and midweek dates. I thought he just wanted a FWB situation so have been having a lot of fun and have had no expectations. But recently there are a couple of things that have happened that have made me think he's more into me than a FWB. We have never discussed us or categorised us as anything. Anyway these are the things tha I have taken are signs;

He picked me up from the airport (a 3 hour round trip) knowing there was no chance of a shag because I had to get my dc's, he offered and I gave him repeated chances to get out of it but he did it

He spent from Friday to Monday morning with me over bank holiday weekend when dc's with their dad.

His best friend told my friend (I know how teenage this sounds!) that he never has girlfriends so he must be into me

We have arranged to go stay at my friends house and see a band next month

We have talked about taking a trip abroad together.

He was miffed and went very quiet when another guy asked me out on a date when we were in the pub together.

So I'm thinking that we are moving away from FWB to maybe a (albeit casual?) relationship and if we do this I want to establish a few boundaries, like better communication between us (it can be a few days between messaging and we can get our wires crossed with plans) and to state that I wouldn't want either of us to sleep with anyone else because of STD's. Do I sound a bit single white female? I can not imagine starting this convo without it sounding a bit weird tbh! I do really like him, im not looking for a long term commitment at all, but I do want a respectful arrangement between us IYSWIM. Then again i dont want to scare him off. Help!! Sorry it's so long.

Thank you bogey I am actually quite a catch! I travel a lot, I have an interesting job and I'm doing a PhD so he seems quite impressed.

I actually think the drunken kick under the table thing is quite promising.
I would keep it as informal and light as you can -- he's obviously into you but some men are intrinsically uncomfortable with the idea of formalising things even if they are going gangbusters.

If the response is negative you can pass it off as being drunk (and you'll know where you stand). But my guess is he's probably building up to something like this anyway...

I thought it was a good idea!? Like you say I can gauge his response and decide from there.

It's not a question of nice or not nice, but what he's likely to be up for at this stage in his life.

I wouldn't personally have sex without an exclusivity clause, so you definitely need to have that conversation

But yeah he's got no money so he's not much of a catch for the OP.

Have sex but don't get too attached, that's all I'm saying.

twinkle you are right in that he has no money, he still lives at home and long term he is planning to move abroad after studying so there will be an end point.

The attached thing is right. I have to stop forming am attachment to him but when you are having sex with a person on a regular basis and spending lots of fun times with them how do you not form an attachment? Plus we are really attracted to each other. Gah, I'm overthinking again.

It's not a question of nice or not nice, but what he's likely to be up for at this stage in his life.

I completely agree. My issue with what you said was the language you used. It was sexist, it implied that an independent woman with means was still somehow a burden to a young single man with no money and no prospects!

Bear in mind that if he says no to exclusivity, it doesn't make him an evil bastard. Not everyone likes exclusivity and he doesn't owe it to you.
It's fine to end the relationship if you he doesn't want to be exclusive and you do, but that doesn't mean he's the bad guy.

My dp and I met via a sex hook up site, where I met several men just for sex. It was him who took things a bit further (cinema, curry now and then) and he initiated 'the talk'. Which went horribly wrong for him (I can't recall details but he was vague and I totally got the wring end of the stick and got all insulted). But hey, that was six years ago. He's five years younger than me.

And I "took him on" with not much money, no property and a kid coming out of a divorce - while I had plenty of savings, equity in my house and a good job. Plus, at the time, plenty of FBs if I wanted them.

Anyway, just go for it - what's the worst that can happen? If it's not exclusive, use condoms.

SGB - he isn't going to be the bad guy. He's genuinely a nice guy and if he doesn't want to solely sleep with me then I wouldn't hold it against him, I would appreciate his honesty. But if he doesn't want to be exclusive (god I hate that term) then I will have to call it a day because my self esteem and my feelings mean I wouldn't be able to handle thinking about or seeing him with someone else. I know I wouldn't feel comfortable with that and I've put myself and my needs last for 10 years. I like myself enough now not to do that anymore. Feel better today about it all thanks to you lot.

but when you are having sex with a person on a regular basis and spending lots of fun times with them how do you not form an attachment?

This is the perennial problem with FWB arrangements. Generally I think men find it easier not to get attached, but sometimes it's the other way round. It may be that it doesn't suit you long term and that's fine.

It was sexist, it implied that an independent woman with means was still somehow a burden to a young single man with no money and no prospects!

No, that's what you read into it. I was actually implying he may not be at the life stage where he's up for that kind of relationship.

It's not even a gender issue, in my mid-20s I wouldn't have got involved with a mid 30s man with kids, simply because I wouldn't have wanted the responsibility.

The words you used were "taking on" and that implies that he is the one who is making a sacrifice or "taking on" a burden. Thats what I have an issue with.

'Taking on' does not imply 'burden' or 'sacrifice', it implies some kind of responsibility.

Have you spoken to him yet op? Be sure to update us when you do. Hope he reacts how you want him to. And I agree you are definitely a catch!

I asked my FWB outright -
"Can I ask if you are sleeping with anyone else because if you are I need to put an end to us two"
Then we got married

Nope not yet. I will update. We are going out on Saturday to a brewery, yes a puss up in a brewery. I'm just going to go down the sleeping with other people route.

Twinkle - he really wouldn't be taking on me and my dc's. I am absolutely resolute that I'll never co habit with anyone ever again and my dc's are nothing to do with him. Nobody needs to take us on, we are managing perfectly well as a unit of 4 and their dad co patents them. My expectations are that this will remain completely separate. If it can.

I know, we were discussing a comment I made before you said that.

Ah right, sorry I was getting confused. Our friends have also said what you said about different life stages so it is something to consider but much much further down the line. At the moment I just keep thinking of it as a summer fling. I should be OK if I keep this mindset and then it will be easier to detach.

Well all that overthinking was a complete waste of time as he has gone radio silent on me last message was yesterday saying he had finished his last exam and he was going out on the beer. I sent him a message today asking what the plan tomorrow is and he hasn't even bothered to read my message or respond on messenger.

So the talk it seems is never going to happen, phew to that! Having a dog of a day, my abusive rapist ex tried to come onto me last night when dropping off some of the dc's clothes so I've been jittery all day and now it looks like I've been unceremoniously dumped from a non starter anyway. Tomorrow will be better won't it? Please say it will!! Can't even have cos I have the dc's.

Aww, that's not much fun. If you can't have wine, can you have some nice chocolate or cake or a spectacularly poncey cup of tea or something?
Plenty more nice men out there, best of luck.

Well he got in touch. Another communication fuck up. This is why I wanted to talk to him. I find it so frustrating.

So he brought something up about girlfriends, I said we haven't had that talk have was and he said he didn't want to talk about it in front of the taxi driver. So I left it.

I got annoyed this morning that everything seems to be on his terms. Even the conversation! So I told him this (prob a bad idea cos we were both hungover) and he said I was moody. I asked if he was sleeping with anyone else or if he wanted to and he said no but he's happy with our casual arrangement. He didn't explicitly say he didn't want me to be his gf but he didn't say he did. So I now know we have agreed not to sleep with others but I'm still no clearer if we are FWB, no longer even seeing each other or together drinking has a lot to answer for.

When you say he brought up something about girlfriends, what was that? I'm sorry OP but he sounds like he doesn't want things to change from your current arrangement, if he's said he's happy with it. He should be jumping at the chance to be your boyfriend. If you want more than FWB, which it sounds like, I'd end it and find someone who can give you that. If you tell him why you're ending it too he can offer you that if he wants as well.