Thinking of seperating from old school DH. Worried about children & if its right :(

[DreamyParentoid]

Thinking of seperating from my DH and finding a house for me and DD1 and DD2 (3.5 and 2). I feel like I have been belittled and putdown, ordered about and controlled. Dishonoured. And YET, it's not in any way as bad as some women on here. He's never hit me or made me feel jealous with other women. He works hard and pays for everything. He's charming and competent, takes us on holidays and introduces us to interesting people and situations...

He just has this flip side that is always putting me down, telling me what to do and not being in the slightest interested in anything I have to say. Wont talk about anything emotional. Just wants me to be witty about books I've read etc. Which I haven't had the time for recently. Or not interested in the ones I have read.

I know I'm not doing well in it, but sometimes feel like if I was a bit stronger it could be an amazing life with him. I think I have been telling myself that for 7 years. On the other side I feel like if he can't see me, all the cool stuff that I'm interested in, then it's not my fault.

So I am thinking I could leave and say there needs to be significant change. Either you arrange for us to go to a counseller, talk, listen properly and learn from what I'm saying, or we stay living apart.

But I'm scared. Not least because DD1 completely loves him and wouldn't do well without him around and I'm scared she'll be angry with me and not want to come to a new house.

Also because I have nothing, I mean I have everything, I have good friends, two beautiful children and a love of the world, but I have no money and feel like I'm in a bit of a state about how to earn when children aren't used to being at nursery. DD1 is due to start school in September but DD2 isn't due to start for another 2 years. And maybe they would be able to handle a bit more time in childcare, but going through us seperating isn't the ideal time to then send them into childcare.

And I doubt he is going to be very easy about it. It would be a huge loss of face for him. He's been divorced before, same reasons I'm sure. And he is really very clever. And I have really loved him. I have really hoped so hard it was going to get better. He still thinks it will.

And this rented house and garden have been my world, both children were born on the playroom floor in front of the piano!

xxx

Am I right in summerising this
You are a show family for him..Its all about appearance. He has no interest in the real you, your real interests or your feelings.
You are concerned that you may be depriving your daughter of the opportunity of seeing her mother in an unequal relationship where she is constantly put down instead
you are willing to stay to stop her short term hurt and because there may be a better time to break up in the future ?

I wasnt intending to be harsh - but sometimes seeing yourself diferently - even in your own words can be terribly revealing.

The best time to leave someone who abuses you is NOW
the best thing you can do for your kids is show them how you should be treated

and the whole - "But its not as bad as other peoples situations" is a bit like being asked to eat a st sandwich , and asking...how much should I eat ...its still St...the answer should be no - I will have none - abuse is not acceptable - the quantity is immaterial

He doesn't sound very clever to me OP. A clever man would know how is wife is feeling and would want to make sure she was happy. This goes both ways in a healthy relationship.

If you tried to sit down and tell him how you feel and give him an ultimatum - lets sort it out or I'm off - what would he do?

you can't stay with someone because he doesn't hit you!You mustn't compare yours to other relationships.

And a man who treats their mother like dirt is an awful example to set to a child - you should be leaving for them, not staying because of them. Or do you want them to end up in the same relationship in 25 years time?

Well, he sounds like a complete shit. His behaviour is abusive, because he knows perfectly well what he's doing - he's Keeping You In Your Place. You're not an equal partner, you're somewhere between a pet, an accessory and a domestic appliance, and you're not supposed to have any opinions or feelings or needs of your own.

He won't change. As far as men like him are concerned, women are simply not human beings. They are 'women' which means they exist for the benefit of men and a man who owns one can do as he likes with it.

"I feel like I have been belittled and putdown, ordered about and controlled. Dishonoured. And YET, it's not in any way as bad as some women on here. He's never hit me or made me feel jealous with other women".

That's because you are being belittled and controlled by him. Your children see and hear far more than you realise as well, they are learning from the two of you about relationships here. What lessons are they learning?. Would you want your DDs to choose a man like their dad for potential partners in future?. You're showing them that this is acceptable to you at this time. DD1 may well not be cross with you, she will adapt and she is in no way emotionally mature enough to call any sort of shots here. You need to show your children that this ill treatment of you is completely unacceptable to you.

Abusive men do not always have to hit their chosen victims in order to hurt them (and what he does already works well on and against you). Am sorry but this is just as bad as any other abusive relationship I have read about on these pages. He has not fundamentally changed in the last 7 years and he will not for you or anyone else. He divorced before I daresay for very similar reasons.

Counselling with such a person would be a waste of time; he would likely not attend any sessions and even if he did go he would likely manipulate the counsellor and blame you for all the problems. He has taken no responsibility for his actions at all here. I can see him being very difficult re the divorce process (and he will be because he wants to punish you for the gall in his eyes of you actually leaving him) but that is no reason not to do that either.

Children love their parents no matter how abusive one of them actually is and your H is abusive. He is not a good father to them either because he is treating you abusively. You're but bit part players also in his universe of which he is at the centre. The only person he cares about is him; he has no desire to see you happy and actively likes keeping you in the hole he has dug for you. He sees you clearly distressed and does not care that you are hurt.

A house is but bricks and mortar; it may be full of memories but its also full of bad memories as well isn't it. Its not a happy household is it, when he starts on you at will its more akin to a warzone. You're walking on eggshells around him really aren't you?.

You are not as powerless as you think you are but what you also need here is information re legal advice. Knowledge after all is power!. Besides which if anyone should leave it should be him.

Staying for the children is never a good idea particularly in this instance.
It is scary to leave and you're likely very afraid of him and his reactions as well. That is understandable but if you took the leap of faith in yourself though and got out at least you would be free of his controlling influences over you and the children day to day. Better to be alone than to be badly accompanied.

you must never undertake joint counselling in an abusive relationship, but counselling for yourself would be invaluable.

He sees you as a WIFE - washing, ironing, fucking etc. That's what you are to him, its a crude but apposite reference for how he sees you.

(BTW what are his parents like, I would imagine that one or both of them behave just the same as he does).

Thanks all. Just doing kiddie supper and will respond directly later. It's so incredibly full on and I've been here to this point of wanting to leave before but never with the sort of strength of perspective I am feeling this time.

What are the legal things I need to know? What is doing this in the best way possible (financially, for the kids, for sanity, for putting together a new house!)? Any advice or suggestions of links?

Jeeze, thank God for this forum!

Make some appointments for initial free half-hour sessions with some local solicitors. They will give you an idea of how to proceed. It's good news in a way if you're in rented, because you could choose to give up the tenancy and go with the kids, rather than trying to winkle him out (and judging by your brief description, I'm sure he will be as awkward as he can.)

Also speak to CAB to see what benefits you'd be entitled to.

No, it's not ideal to put your kids through a separation, a house move and start school/nursery in the same time frame - but it's hardly unknown and they will settle.

By the way you said you worried your daughter would hate you for leaving. Children are programmed to love their parents even if their parents are abusive shitstains. If you stay with him he will control your DDs the same way he does you. Or he may cultivate one and turn her against you - divide and conquer. That's what my controlling dad did to me once I hit puberty - then he molested me for 2 years. Not saying that's a road your H would go down - but all forms of abuse are about control and power. And your H clearly has a need to dominate.

Your job as a mum is to protect your children and see they they grow up as whole, healthy humans. They cannot grow up in an unhealthy household and be healthy.

I recognised your username so I looked back over your previous thread, which I posted on.

Did you give him an ultimatum at that time? Did you ever manage to get him to listen?

These are rhetorical questions - a year and a half on, the issues are the same, there's clearly been no progress and you want to leave more than ever. I think it's too late for counselling and 'change'. If he were going to listen or change he would have done so by now.

I would focus all your energy on figuring out the divorce.

A gilded cage is still a cage

Good luck, OP

Has anyone suggested women's aid yet?
They have huge information resources about your rights and ways of starting the process of separation and about what you can expect to have to deal with. They have a good website
Womensaid.org.uk
You might want to contact your local housing association too.