Baby Making Machines!!!

[MumsMan]

As the name suggests, I am a man. Sorry but I need a female perspective (but men are also welcome to take part in this discussion). Been on Mumsnet for months but first post today.

I know my dw since I was 15 and she 14. We started going out in 1987 at tender ages of 17 and 16. We held on to dear love for almost nine years as I was studying. She dropped out of school as soon as she fell for (and boy, was she crazy for me!). It was a whirlwind, no-holds-barred romance all the way. She was from a religious family so I respected her wish and we both got married virgins in 1996 (yes it is possible!). She told me all the time that she was saving the best for me!

As soon we got married, she said that sex was not every thing. I agreed and kept on loving her. We did have some sex but then she became pregnant. Our first child was born in our own brand spanking new two bedroom apartment in 1998. I did not disturb her during her pregnancy and gave her the chance to regain her strength. . So no sex for almost two years! Then we had some but she fell pregnant again with ds2. She loves babies, I love babies. This was our world and we loved each other. I went back to university to complete my second Masters and ds2 was born in Jan 2000. Beautiful little boy, he is. More happiness. We were mad for our children and we were mad for each other. There was only one thing missing and by now I had started to feel rejected by her as she just would not do it. Pill did not suit her so I started using contraception. She asked for another baby after a couple of years and I told her that there was no room in the flat for another one. But she insisted and I had to give up. So ds3 was born in 2003 and the next month of his birth, we moved to our big, spacious three bedroom house which came with a substantial monthly mortgage installment as well. Still I had no regrets as I loved my family. I had worked night shift since the birth of our first child as I wanted to give more time to my family. As a result, I never had a career in spite of being highly educated and hard working.

Within a year, she asked for another baby and this time I snapped. There was a lot of trouble but she persisted and eventually won. She became pregnant again but lost the child after a few weeks. Still she insisted on one more try and we had some wild sex for these last two pregnancies. She wanted me and she was up for it all the time. At one time I felt that I couldn't keep up with her! We had some wild moments, on kitchen stools, on the sofe, on dining table, in the garden etc. We were like rabbits, literally and I loved it. Finally our first female child was born in April this year. Beautiful little baby girl. Now we have 4 kids. The daughter is 7 months old and wifey is gone off me again. We had sex twice or three times in last seven months. It was our 19th anniversary yesterday. I bought flowers and covered the walls of our sitting room with one hundred copies of our best photo together taken 10 years ago. They are still there. She loved it. It was so original, so romantic. We loved eachother all day. But NOTHING happened during the night time, as usual I came downstairs, Mumsnet as usual. I am feeling down and rejected. What did I do that was wrong. We talk, we discuss everyhting and above all we love eachother to bits. What went wrong? Why can't we enjoy sex like other people do? Why is it so good when it is for making babies and why can't we enjoy it for it's own sake? Is it normal? Please help!

choking... good Freudian slip...
Before we married the priset in the classes said each always give in to the other if they wanted sex. I think that's a pretty good rule but I've never had this as a major issue because I like sex anyway and I certainly don't think we want men or women lying back thinking of English and not enjoying it. Mind you we do loads of things for our partners we dont' like, day in day out. Compromise, self sacrifice and selflessness is an important part of all relationships....(not that I know because I'm divorced.....etc )

Continuous consent. Didn't used to be until relative recently actually that you could rape your wife. Always was the case that it was allowed even if she didn't agree by the way. Still is the case (however abhorrent that is) over much of the globe. And some women quite like an element of consensual non consent but that's another topic. The asexual and those not feeling like sex at all do not and it's illegal thank goodness now in the UK and am important protection for women in marriage.

But I trhink people should see it as a problem they have that they need to solve if they want sex once every 2 months. They are not being normally sexually available and their parent is entitled to want something done about it.

"People say that I spoiled her. I don't think so. I just love her the way I promised her I would all those years ago. Life is great but there is this big hole in the middle of an otherwise perfect relationship. To me sex matters a lot as not having sex makes me feel as if I am imprisoned within my own head. I feel like an animal running up and down his cage. It's been like this long enough. There has to be a way out. I want to be desired, to be made feel like some one who is needed all the time."

Me too

ditto..my dh is never up for it, and for once I wish he would initiate ..

I don't think there's anything wrong with people only wanting sex every few months, or not at all - if that's what both partners are happy with. I don't think there's any
normal or minimum (or maximum for that matter ) amount of sex. It really is down to each couple.

Oh dear oh dear oh dear.
As much as I appreciate coming on MN and hearing comments from a lot of people with differents background, approaches etc.., I think this is one subject that is very sensitive and should approach with a lot of care!
People suggesting that the dw should actually 'get on with it', that 'once you get going then you enjoy it' etc... all seem to forget one very important side. That she might find sex repulsive if this is not for getting pg. As much as I do appreciate that most of you have tried to give the best advice they could in this situation, I am not sure you have any idea of what it means to love someone, to know that having sex with him would make him happy (which you want because you love him), being under pressure by society as a whole to have sex several times a weeks ... AND ... finding the whole idea disgusting.
The only thing that will make things moving is if she starts to feel that having sex is pleasurable activity and is not 'dirty'.
The way to do that is for her to change her ideas about the whole thing, ideas that have been given to her when she was little. THIS will be very difficult. MumsMan, one thing that you haven't said is whether you have talked to her about it, about how you felt, and about how she feels about it ie would she want to change the situation and get more 'liberated' or does she think it is how it should be?
A way forwards : reading erotic books (not porn), talking about it together so that the idea doesn't look as negative to her?
Telling her how much you enjoyed making love when trying for a baby?
Spending the evening cuddling and introducing more and more erotic acts (Carressing each other naked, playing with a feather, whatever you might think about BUT wo the penetration) and then moving to something more and more intimate.
Really the idea is to try to slowly convince her that it is OK without going too fast
I actually do agree that sex is part of marriage but it has to be appreciated by both partners otherwise it doesn't make sense.

DC, that's the best, wisest post on this thread.

i agree with dailychore. is roughly what i was trying to say.

Wow! Loads of posts. We went out seeing hers and mine relatives. This is another thing. I am outgoing whereas she likes to stay at home. I can't get enough of guests visiting us, she wouldn't be bothered by anybody darkening our doorstep. Back in the days I used to go around doing chores for people. Fixing computers, fixing a curtain rail, helping someone paint a room. She hated it. As a result I slowly gave up doing what I loved so much to do. Her philosophy of life is 'never do anybody a favour and never expect one from anybody.' (exact words). Her family were conservative. She was not brought up to question things. I remember my dad taking the piss out of religious doctrine whereas my mum is very devout (she is an angel, I have never seen a sin in her. She looked after everybody till old age rendered her incapable) so I am a mixture of both. I don't accept all that is in the scriptures and somethings are downright disgusting and ridiculous wheras other things are good and should be applied in certain affairs. DC I will try and follow your advice. I don't want her to feel guilty but deep I know that she should.