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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

How do I handle this?

24 replies

Meepandyoup · 29/05/2015 10:57

I have a very difficult relationship with my mother. Everyone thinks she's lovely, a doting grandmother, everyone's best pal and confidante, a pillar of the community. Even my best friend, who worked with her for a while, didn't really believe me that she wasn't like that all the time.

There's another side to her too though. Everything I ever did was about her; if I misbehaved, I got 'why do you do this to me?', when I finally did something she approved of, I got 'at last you've done something I can be proud of!'. I was 18 by then, had done well in school and was in college, but apparently none of that counted. When I told her I was pregnant, I got 'but I'm too young to be a grandmother!'. She was 58, I was 29 and had been married for a year. When DS was born he was terribly sick and we were told that if he made it through he would be terribly brain damaged. The NICU had strict rules about visiting which meant that she could only visit when DH or I was there. She rang me when he was 5 days old and said that they couldn't mind DD any more (they had been our childcare for two days a week) because they were too traumatised by what was happening with DS. Then she went to the NICU head of shift and told her that we were forcing them to mind DD all the time so they never got a chance to see DS, and asked for an exeption from the rules so they could see him without us. She told me that it was good that I didn't have PND after DS's birth because when I did after DD's I 'made everyone's lives very difficult by not letting them see DD' - I had begged them to visit more often because I was alone all day with no car to go anywhere and I was desperately bored and lonely, but that's not the way she remembers it. I was diagnosed with depression at 19; she told me I wasn't depressed and took my prescription for antidepressants away. Shortly after that I dropped out of college and was unemployed for a few months. After the usual 'why are you doing this to me?', I was asked every day why I had no job yet. Not because I needed one to get my life going again, but because she was so ashamed of me that she was lying to everyone in her life about me. She refused to tell anyone I had dropped out because it was too embarrassing.

She has always tried to maintain complete control of my relationship with my sister. She would never discuss DSis with me at all, I was told her life was none of my business. She forbade me to discuss my wedding in front of DSis in case it made her feel bad because she was single. Even now she insists on being a go-between, she gets in a huff if we contact each other without going through her, with the result that my sister and I have no real relationship at all.

She controls my relationship with other family as well; she loves showing off my kids to extended family but always does it on days when they're minding the kids and we're not around. I've tried to invite family to my house to meet them but she always comes up with reasons not to. I suspected, and my sister recently confirmed, that it's because she's ashamed of my house because she thinks it's too small and shabby so she doesn't want relatives to see it. When she introduces us to people, she introduces the kids first and gets them to chat with whoever it is, then waves a hand towards us and says 'oh, and these are their parents'. When I was pregnant with DD she introduced my bump to someone as her first grandchild, then added 'oh, and that's her mother'. I know it sounds innocuous and as if she's just a really proud grandmother but it feels very much as if she just doesn't care about me or DH and is only bothered with the kids now.

I think there's an expectation that I follow her script. She prefers me not to be coping well. She seems to like me to complain about having no time or too much housework or whatever; she'll be sympathetic and tell me she remembers how hard it was for her. I think she likes to feel she's helping. But when things are going well for me she seems to get almost angry about it.

It's like everything is a carefully calculated act to make people see her in a particular way, and it works very well for her. But she says awful things about people behind their backs; she thinks everyone is inferior to her. She used to tell me that all my friends were mean and I shouldn't talk to them any more; the one friend she couldn't possibly label as horrible she said was stupid; she used to call her Pheobe behind her back because she thought she was flaky (she's really not!). She lets people confide in her and then laughs at them behind their backs. She uses people to get what she wants but doesn't appear to genuinely like most of them at all, and she does her best to destroy my trust in people other than her. I have almost no friends because I was in my mid twenties before I realised that she was wrong and that not everyone was two-faced and awful.

5 months ago (on a long anticipated holiday - my first trip with my kids which I had been planning for a year and was hugely excited about, to a destination which my parents would have loved to bring us to as kids but couldn't afford it) the whole family had a massive row and my parents and sister all said that they think I'm a really nasty and unpleasant person and very hard to be around. Apparently every time they leave our house 'the air in the car turns blue with f-ing and blinding' they do because I'm so awful. They think I'm incapable of parenting my children and that I use the children as weapons against them. My father said that my sister has been telling him that she feels very unwelcome in our home (despite us giving her an open invitation to come over every week for dinner, giving her a key to let herself in if she gets there before we get home, and buying her a pair of slippers so she'll be cosy because we know she feels the cold - we really do try to make her feel at home! I had thought it would be good to try and see each other away from my parents to try and repair things a bit, you see). So she's been seeing the children in my parents' house when we're not around, and doesn't come to our house any more. The row ended with my sister sticking her face in mine and hissing 'I hope you enjoy your perfect holiday in xxx - it's your own fault it's ruined!' and storming off.

Five months later it's very obvious that they're still angry with me but I don't understand exactly why, or what to do about it. I just can't get past all of this being said. Everyone else in my life thinks they're nuts, that I'm nothing like they've said, and that I'm a good parent. My instinct is just to see them as little as possible (for my own sanity!) but that will just be interpreted as using the kids as a weapon. They're so very, very convinced that I'm awful that avoiding them will just be seen as more proof of that. And they're absolutely mad about my kids - I don't want to deprive them of that. But it's really hard to be around them, wondering if what I'm saying is terrible, and whether they'll be bitching about me again as soon as I leave.

Help me make sense of it all, please? (and apologies for the enormous length of the post!)

OP posts:
FlabulousChix · 29/05/2015 11:03

I'd disown them. They sound reLly toxic. Stop questioning yourself and leave these nasty people behind your life would be better without them in it. Time to say fuck you arseholes. They bring you down and don't enhance your life at all.

antimatter · 29/05/2015 11:12

I would not see them for a while...

however this doesn't make sense to me "I've tried to invite family to my house to meet them but she always comes up with reasons not to."
Where does your mother come to it.
She doesn't have to know about it. Or be in your house during those visits.

Littletabbyocelot · 29/05/2015 11:13

My aunt is vile to my mum, until they went nc she was constantly belittling and criticising her. She tried to convince me, her beloved niece, that my mum has serious issues. I went nc with my aunt but actually it has hurt me and subtly damaged my relationship with my mum because it made me doubt my own judgment.

I wish my mum had got the toxic woman out of our lives sooner. In normal circumstances I don't think children need people in their lives who are hostile to theirparents.

Skiptonlass · 29/05/2015 11:13

She sounds absolutely awful. Controlling, toxic, manipulative...

Why do you still let her see you? She doesn't bring anything positive to your life, only makes you stressed.

Take the key away, let them come to you if they want to see you, no more minding the kids on their own - God knows what they're filling their heads with while you're not there.

You literally get nothing positive out of them. I'd shut them out and concentrate on your own lovely little family. Life's too short to be wrecked by people like this.

FredaMayor · 29/05/2015 11:15

Your mother sounds like a narcissistic personality and IMO your relationship with her is toxic to you. Are you a single parent? What seems to me important for you now is a support system for you and your DCs - citizens's advice, social services, or a health visitor are all places you could start to get some practical advice on how to put some distance between you and her and her 'agents'.

What you have written sounds hellish, and I understand how crushing it is, but don't remain a victim because you are frightened of change. x

pocketsaviour · 29/05/2015 11:18

Isolating you and making your contact with other members of the family go through her is a well known narcissist tactic called "triangulation".

You may find this website helpful:
Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers

Are they still providing childcare? They are almost certainly undermining your parenting and character to your children, behind your back. I would make alternative arrangements as quickly as possible, then endeavour to go low or no contact with them.

Shitty parents make shitty grandparents. Don't judge how they treat your kids based on only what you see. Base it on what you know about their treatment of you as a child, and now as an adult.

FeckTheMagicDragon · 29/05/2015 11:23

Read up on Golden child/scapegoat child. This sounds pretty classic. With you as the scapegoat and your sister as the golden child.

It sounds like your mother has successfully alienated your sister from you. What will you do when your children are older if she does the same to them? You and your family (YOUR family, she's had her chance and pretty much fucked it up) come as a package.

I know you want and deserve a loving extended family, but unfortunately you don't have one from the sounds of it. Time to put some distance in and get some barriers up. Flowers
Star: Star

Meepandyoup · 29/05/2015 11:29

Not, they're not providing childcare anymore. I found a childminder, the kids adore her, it's great. My mother shouted and cried and begged me not to take the kids away from her. My father isn't speaking to me, he's clearly utterly furious.

She interferes in family stuff because she won't give me their contact details. Everything has to go through her.

OP posts:
FeckTheMagicDragon · 29/05/2015 11:32

these two bits stood out for me:
The Scapegoat can be punished for doing something well, because that threatens the narcissist’s narrative that the Scapegoat is all bad. Not overtly punished, because that would also ruin the narrative that it’s all the Scapegoat’s fault. But subtly, sneakily. You had to give up dancing just as you reached a triumphant milestone because of [insert trumped up excuse here] - maybe they supposedly couldn't afford dance classes any longer, or the lift to the dance classes was no longer possible, or they fell out with the dance teacher. Bonus points if the reason for sabotaging the dance classes involved the Golden Child: “Golden Child wants to do dance too, and we can’t afford both, and it’s not fair for you to be the only one.” (And no matter if Golden Child does stuff that you don’t.) Or, “We can’t bring you to dance class any more as Golden Child is taking up karate and her classes are on at that time.”

and

Likewise you might get rewarded, in a strange way, for failure. You might get the approval of living down to their expectations, and you’ll pick up on that, and even that meagre approval feels good.

giantpurplepeopleeater · 29/05/2015 11:43

I would just quitely go no contact.

Reading the stuff the other PP's posted will help to explain it all to you, but honestly I doubt this will ever change.

It sounds like they bring a lot of negativity to your life - and do you really want that? For you, and for your kids?

Sounds like your life will be a lot less stressful with some distance from them. Even if you resume some minimal contact in time.

Don't let yourself get treated like this.

Melonfool · 29/05/2015 12:04

I have no contact with my mother and father, they are horrible people and I have zero regrets about not being in contact with them. Mother is blocked on fb (father doesn't have an account) and I moved house without bothering to tell them so they have no address or phone number either (I've never given them my mobile number). If they wanted to they could get this info from other family members, no-one has been briefed not to tell them, but they have not asked.

So, my view is obviously slanted by that. I say cut them off. Who cares what they say about it/you?

You will gradually feel better and your kids will not be around those negative experiences. I don't have kids but I wouldn't want my parents anywhere near any kids of mine - so much that last year when my sister had a big party the family were invited to (my father chose not to come, but I didn't know that until nearer the time) I was too worried about seeing them and I didn't didn't take dss who was invited, I didn't want him to be the subject of any gossip or for him to hear/see any nastiness - and he's not even my child! (dp came).

antimatter · 29/05/2015 12:21

I would go NC with them.
You will gain peace and remove that awfulness and jealousy from your life.

Try to get hold of your relatives via FB or even Linkedin. They wouldn't mind i am sure.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles · 29/05/2015 12:46

Your mother likes to have everyone dance to her tune and it's a divide-+-conquer strategy she's implemented with her daughters. She puts on a front with those around her and she's fooled most people. The good thing is that you don't need to justify to anybody your reasons for reducing contact. It's your decision.

I really don't think someone of that type who incidentally interfered with her adult daughter's medication when you were still living under her roof is someone best qualified as any judge of your mothering ability.

I don't know if your sister is plain jealous of what you have but accepting all your hospitality then putting the boot in with your parents is two-faced and unfair. I think giving a key to anyone hostile is a mistake and I wouldn't trust her not to abuse that.

There shouldn't be a barrier to you having other family members round to your own house. It's not for your parents to criticise or judge your home or deter visitors.

It is a big step forward that you are no longer dependent on your parents for childcare. Your parents can moan about you denying contact with their grandchildren but it's a result of their attitude towards you. You haven't touched upon it but I am guessing that they never particularly bothered with your DH much? Many people once their children are married see the roles change. They treat their offspring more as equals. I see more chance of you levitating skyward than there is of your parents showing you any respect.

They have backed themselves into a corner. If you are so awful how come your children are so adorable? They have an inflated sense of their own importance and would quite calculatingly bypass you to win over your children.

BettyCatKitten · 29/05/2015 13:05

I'm with pp, your life would be better without them.
Will I ever be good enough? Healing the daughters of narcisstic mothers by Karyl McBride.
May help you.
Be careful about her having your children as she will try to turn them against you. My friends mum done this to her and it is only now her son is an adult that she is rebuilding her relationship with him.

mix56 · 29/05/2015 14:18

NC

BolshierAyraStark · 29/05/2015 15:22

What do you get out of having them in your life? I'll hazard a guess at nothing? Why would you want them around your children as they sound toxic & absolutely vile. Cut them from your life, I guarantee you will be much happier.

PeppermintCrayon · 29/05/2015 16:32

They won't change, sadly. All you can do is decide whether you want this shit in your life.

I went NC and it has brought me immense peace of mind.

QuiteLikely5 · 29/05/2015 16:48

I can't get over what she did when your son was in hospital.

How dare she say she couldn't look after your daughter because she was too stressed over your son.

This would do it for me I'm afraid.

There truly is nothing you can do to change the family dynamics.

I would stop all contact otherwise it will continue

ClawofBumhead · 29/05/2015 18:59

LTB.

That's what I did - never looked back.

Meepandyoup · 29/05/2015 20:08

I'm relieved that other people think it's bad. I'm so sad though, I miss them the people I thought they were, desperately.

OP posts:
SomethingOnce · 29/05/2015 23:34

Totally agree they are toxic as hell.

What have you got to lose by going NC? (Losing the people you wish they were doesn't count.)

Your posts read like she's messed with your head so badly you are having trouble telling which way is up. Which is a horrible thing to do to a person. I'm sorry you've had to suffer a lifetime of it, but you can set yourself free starting today.

goddessofsmallthings · 30/05/2015 03:59

You won't miss the people you thought they 'were', but you may miss the people they think they are - which is the loving and caring dps/dgps/dsis you've never had.

In truth your biological family members are toxic and once you've got their poisonous presences out of your life you'll be able to concentrate on building a mentally and emotionally healthy future for yourself and your dc.

Don't be under any illusion that your dc will miss out if you go no contact as the fact is that, slowly but surely, they'll turn your dc against you if you continue to engage with them - and most probably turn your dc against each other.

'Family by Fate, Friends by Choice'. As a fully functioning mature adult, you're no longer bound by the fate that gave you a short straw in the family stakes and are free to create a family of friends who will be far more sensitive to your individual needs than your birth family could ever be.

Re the key you've given the viper in the nest your sister, don't bother asking for it back; change the lock(s) and bin those slippers!

Btw, if you're thinking of having a last ditch attempt at building bridges, clearing the air, or similar wishful thinking, forget it as all you'll be doing is setting yourself up to fail. They'll never change but it's within your power to cut the strings that have caused you to put up with their shit dance to their tune you for far too long.

Meepandyoup · 01/06/2015 09:36

My problem is that some of the time I really believe that they're toxic, but the rest of the time I find myself thinking that they're not that bad, that there are times when they're perfectly nice and that I'm being terribly unfair to them to think of them this. They've done a lot of great things for us (like years of free childcare!).

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