The talk before having kids - What do you think?

[onereminder]

I'm a new poster here but frequently see posts about couples with young children who end up having less sex, less time for each other, fewer date nights, less money, less time for hobbies, less freedom and it results in relationship problems.

It's got me thinking. Do people, when planning the biggest life change they'll ever have, actually sit down and talk about the changes involved?

I do feel that a lot of unsuitable matches - and their consequent disintegration - could be avoided by having a chat before trying to conceive in which it's stated quite clearly, so both are on the same page:

"If we have a child there are thousands of emotional benefits - but you need to accept that you must expect less sex, less time for each other, fewer date nights, more stress, less money, less hobby time, less freedom, and more stress. Are you cool with this?"

Or do we avoid that because we fear that if they knew the truth about raising a family, they'd be less likely to commit?

I suspect it's the latter, but wanted to know what you think.

Some people do discuss and some don't. Either way the theory and reality are quite different and whether your relationship survives it depends upon a number of factors.

Most notably whether you can both step up to the plate in terms of handling and sharing the responsibility.

You can't possibly prepare for having children. You can talk until you're blue in the face but until you actually have a child, you have no idea what its like. And as others have said, no-one is the person or couple they imagined they would be. Its all very rose tinted before the event. Its the best thing to have children but it changes things dramatically and you just have to ride it together and see what happens.

Ha the only price of info I remember saying before I was pregnant was "I won't use a dummy" and a million other bonkers ideas that soon got thrown out the window the dummy one was the only one I stuck by and none of them had one. used me instead

I think it's important to talk about it as you may have very different default expectations. DP and I share a nationality but come from very different family cultures, so our expectations and what we think is 'obvious' has proved to be very different.

It ranges from small things, like how much is reasonable to spend on a gift for a friend to who does what around the house, bread-winning, childcare, which country to live in... I'm not suggesting we've got it all nailed down, but it has been very helpful to at least understand that our expectations are different.

Of course, if your mindsets are pretty similar, you may find there's not much to talk about. We have friends who are very happy rattling along without talking as they're like trains on parallel tracks. DP and I are more like a horse hitched to a giraffe wandering around the desert - we can go anywhere, as long as we can agree!

We discussed expectations, plans and finances in quite a lot of detail. However, a lot of those plans went to pot when DS was diagnosed with SN as a toddler. We were lucky as we weren't so tightly planned that we couldn't be flexible (I gave up work in the end as childcare was impossible to arrange around appointments, and no childcare staff could cope with DS's demands). But I think other parents of children with disabilities have found it much harder, because they had so many expectations and detailed plans (down to specific childcare/schools which would be used, and timing for returning to work and promotions through the years) that having something different from those expectations completely floored them.

It's not just when a family has children with disabilities either - the same thing can happen if one of the parents get sick/disabled, including severe PND, or have an unexpected redundancy, early widowhood or any other major life curve ball.

So, I think it's good to sketch out rough plans but I think that often prospective parents assume that things are going to run smoothly and feel cheated when they have to make changes or compromises in their plans. The whole nature of having a family means that you take on the full responsibility of it regardless of what might happen, but I see so many families ruined by bitterness and anger at having to take on more responsibility than they expected at the start.

I think whiteshirts covers it most clearly for me, but I think there is more important stuff too about understanding that maternity leave does not include housekeeping- my job during ML was looking after bubs and just as when DP works from home it's not reasonable for me to expect him to do all the washing, washing up, vacuum, and have a meal prepared by the time I get back at 7pm he has to realise that I won't do those things either- maybe half of one of those of he's lucky.
I think it is worth discussing these things as a person's reaction and reply to such a discussion tells you a LOT about them.
Career stuff too- crucial. I didn't realise how much DP respects and admires my career and how keen he was for me not to become a sahm after ML. He'd have 'allowed' me to if I'd really wanted to, but knowing that he really supported my career from before TTC was interesting and really helpful for me personally. I think every couple will have things like this that they find enlightening.
You wouldn't decide to move to rural Australia without an in depth discussion of all aspects of how the change would affect you both actually I'm sure some people would but not me so you shouldn't do something even more life changing like have a child without a similar discussion. It isn't 'agreeing the plan' so much but having the discussion and understanding each other's viewpoints and priorities that is so valuable from these discussions IMO.
This is a very incoherent ramble but hopefully it makes some sense.

You need to have the talk, nut equally you need to listen to the answers - and I don't just mean what you hear coming out of your partner's mouth.

XP and I had the talk. He told me what I wanted to hear. We reproduced. He showed his true colours and reneged on pretty much all his promises.

If I'm brutally honest with myself, the tell-tale signs were all there beforehand. Actions speak louder than words, and what he said in other contexts could have been hugely illuminating about his attitudes towards partnership and parenthood had I paid more attention. But because I was ready for parenthood and he said 'yes' I swept that under the carpet.

Current P and I don't have DC, nor plans to. He step-parents amazingly. Before he was introduced to my DC I watched his behaviour in other situations very, very carefully and listened to his comments about other people's families/parenting styles/children in general. I was pretty sure I knew how he'd behave long before we had 'the talk'. The talk went just the way I expected it to and he has never disappointed me in the years since.

I only wish I'd displayed better judgement first time round.

A person gives you a million clues about what they're like. You just have to learn to see them.

I'm always amazed how some couples have no discussion at all, they would just let it happen. That's what our parents from the 1950's seemed to do; whether it was unreliable contraception or societal pressure, accidents just seemed to be the norm, and you accepted it. (Or not) I've seen people put more thought into buying a new refrigerator than deciding to have kids! When we had the discussion, we just looked at each other, laughed heartily and haven't regretted our child free status once. Some of my friends however....

I started dating my now DH when I was 32, he was 35. We got drunk a lot together in those early dates and the subject of what we both wanted from life was discussed very openly.

Luckily we both wanted the same things (still waiting for the kids to come along) but if we hadn't then it was important that it was acknowledged.

I don't understand any relationship where these conversations don't come up in some form or another

You first OP

Yes we did discuss it, we were convinced it was going to be a big shit tornado we might emerge out of intact in about twenty years. It actually isn't that bad and I think we as a couple have survived really well, whether that's down to 'the talk' I don't know but it's always important for me to know what he really thinks about things and make sure he knows where I'm at too.

Ideally, couples would communicate all the time

Including about changes big or small, possibly, imminent or underway.

There's no magic, protective, family-enhancing effect that 'having a talk' will confer.

Possibly the opposite. Those who communicate well don't need to think about adding a 'set piece'; those who don't won't find it helps.

We never had the big conversation regarding who would do what as I have never needed to tell him to do things. If he sees a sink full of dishes or a stack of clothes to put away he gets on and does it and it's the reason I married him and had his kids.

If I had to spell it out explicitly to a fully grown seemingly intelligent adult what they needed to do with a new baby around then I'd run for the hills

I think the key is not marrying an arsehole. My husband was a nice person who pulled his weight before we had our daughter and continued to be after.

I agree with the posters who say you can't plan though. Nothing can prepare you for the extent to which your life will change.