Amicable (ish) split but still need a solicitor?

[twomanycats]

hello,

My husband left pretty much 3 months ago and he's pressing me for 'what percentage' I want from the house split (he's in rented). I'm struggling to decide (I'd buy him out if I could but on my PT wage I can't get a big enough mortgage) and although we're being pretty amicable I think my only route is a solicitor. I've had a free half hour and I'm wondering how much it will be to sort out a financial separation? The solicitor couldn't give me a guestimate but at £160/hr and £16/letter I'm worried if I go down that route I could be paying £1000s. They said they would need to ask for a full disclosure of all assets too which I'm nervous about as it will just get his back up!

I've pretty much decided to ask for 60% of all assets as our children will be staying with me 5-6 out of 7 nights.

I'm feeling pressured but also in need to get things sorted out before applying for schools in September, Christmas etc..

Would people suggest that a solicitor is the best way to go despite the costs? I was thinking if it could all get sorted - financial split from house sale for £500 ish that it would be worth it....
My pals say definitely but they've not been through it. I think I know I have to but am nervous about peeing ex off and the costs to bare.

Thanks for listening

Many people have been successful with a DIY divorce but it does rely on an amicable and fair split. Personally I would always use a solicitor as not only do they know the rules of the game but they are in your corner should things get difficult.

However if you can agree the basics between you (without the need for legal advice) then great, go for it and then just use the solicitor for the official paperwork. Full disclosure of assets and income is always the first step otherwise how do know how to divide the cake?

My advice is that if you're too nervous to ask him for disclosure, for fear of him being difficult, then you definitely need a solicitor!
It sounds like you don't trust him to be fair.

And as you have two young children who you expect to have most of the time, why do you even want to sell the house?
You're part time, can you get a mortgage?
Would there be enough equity for you to buy a reasonable smaller house?

If children are involved then I'd say solicitor. I did a diy divorce for a shortish child free marriage and got a solicitor involved to handle the house transfer because I was buying him out.

Hmm, you might need to ask for more than 60% because of the disparity in your incomes. Will he be paying maintenance aswell? Don't forget, you should get a chunk of his pensions.

Will 60% give you enough to buy a house big enough to accommodate the children comfortably and without struggling to pay mortgage, utilities, normal monthly expenditure, holidays, children's activities etc? He can manage with a smaller property because the children won't be there so often.

There are books on divorce which have checklists of all the things to include in your monthly calculations of how much income/capital you need to maintain equal lifestyles.

If it were me, I would use a solicitor. It concerns me that he's pressing you to name a figure without independent advice, though I suppose you will have to go to mediation anyway at some point.

Someone I knew had an amicable split and they got a solicitor friend (not family law) to sort out the divorce.

However, it turned out part way through that there had been another woman for three years and things did not go too well after that. The dh got his share of the house equity, but did not sign over the deeds. Time passed, then he demanded more equity (having spent what he got) before he would sign as the house prices had gone up. He got it because it was cheaper than going to court. He also jacked in his £70,000 job so that his DC had to leave their private school and moved abroad with OW and her 3 children.

Probably better to go for a proper arrangement in the first place.

Aw thanks everyone...

You're right I don't trust him entirely - I did, but how can i now.

Asking for more than 60% feels too much as I've been trying to tot up the assets and suggest he keeps his pension and shares and I'll have more of the house...I don't know what I'm doing I guess. I need to know all the 'ingredients for the cake though, you're right...
I would just about manage on 60%....I feel like asking for more will create a big fight...
he'll pay money each month but he hasn't said how much.

I can get a mortgage to cover the current mortgage but that leaves him without any ready cash even if he did let me buy him out. He needs his name off the mortgage to buy somewhere else. He said he could possibly buy me out but I don't like the thought of the kids having to move out of their home to then come back and visit - selfish by me? Feels wrong.

Thanks again - you've given me the confidence in the decision I wanted to make - if that makes sense lol!

I think (married to a divorce lawyer) that things often deteriorate as you get into the detail. If he's asking for a figure he's either doing it because he wants to start the ball rolling and know what he's likely to be left with or he's pushing you to put a figure on it without knowing perhaps the extent of his assets / income. Only you know how involved you have been historically in the family assets and which of those options it's likely to be.

You deserve credit for trying to keep things amicable but don't lose sight of the fact that you need to protect yourself and your children financially. Don't be afraid to rock the boat if you feel pressurised or want clarification of your family's finances.

Boat rocked oops!

I had a positive email back with him saying he could see why I needed to see a solicitor and he had hoped we could keep them out of it but understands. I was pleased and replied in more of a chatty style with some scenarios that may be discussed - me staying in the house with the kids, greater than 60% cut or me staying in the house a bit longer rather than pushing for a decision but that didn't go well. He says he's being persecuted for decisions he may not have agreed to - I.e me working part time and that he's made a mistake in planning for the future because now he's being stung for it I.e me having a claim on pension and shares. My kids are only 5 and 7 (8 soon) and I took 9 months off with each, worked 30 hours then 23 then 20 and now 25 (10-3pm) so it's hardly like I have been swanning around enjoying lunches and shopping on my own! Grrr sorry it's been a long morning of tears and pressure. I've booked my solicitor and am going to see a house tonight just to get my head around what's out there. How do things go so downhill so quickly - we had planned a holiday, improvements to the house and all sorts and the bam "it's not working is it"
Hope you're all having a better day ??

I think he's got a rather large shock coming to him my love. You need to DEFINATELY see a solicitor, don't listen to him, he's obviously only thinking of himself. The children's needs are paramount here. Don't let him pressure you into any rash decisions, you seem anxious about ' upsetting' him, you have to be strong to make sure you get the best settlement for you and your little ones.

It depends on so many things - you really do need expert advice. It sounds like you are the one trying to be amicable - you have to detach yourself (though I know it's hard.)

OP, I don't think there is such a thing as an amicable split.
If the split and all that it entails turns out to have been amicable, great, but don't expect it, IMHO!

Because by being angry he hopes to intimidate you into agreeing to less than you're entitled to, of course.

I would always recommend getting a solicitor if at all possible. Not only can they give you a realistic idea of how much you may be entitled to, they can be a useful buffer, especially if your H starts to play up. Do look for one with experience in divorce/family law rather than just the nearest or cheapest, and shop around a little so you find someone you are comfortable working with, who you are 100% sure is on your side. None of them are cheap as such but can save a lot more than they cost.

Do you own the house outright, or is there a mortgage on it? If so, how much equity - realistically - do you have in it?

Do you and husband have any assets - cash, valuable chattel?

Does you or your husband have a pension? A lot of people do not these days.

Are there some possessions you really want? Others you could not give a stuff about?

Re-post, and try and come up with a figure for your net-assets. A friend recently split from his wife. There net asset position was -£50K. I suggested that he let her keep the house if she wanted it.

Maybe you husband is being sensible - I know of some divorces where the legal people have ended up with more money than either side. Some cretin I know ran up a 3k legal bill trying to claim a £500 stereo.

Or he may be trying to diddle you.

Also you cannot assume that the money + assets will flow husband -> wife. It might be the other way if the wife has more assets.

Hello - having just been dumped out of the divorce process I can probably advise a little.

You are assumed to have equally contributed to the marriage. A marriage is more than just the income generated otherwise it's 'just a business'. ...you know, things like housework, raising kids, having laughs, being a companion and all sorts of other things that go into making a home with someone. So a solicitor will tell you: the starting point is half of all marital assets (inc pensions) and it's adjusted for needs after that. Not who earnt what. He is assumed to have needs too.

Your children are the first priority. They need a home and at least one adult to supervise them! A parent is usually considered the best adult for this job.

So it's not about the percentage split but necessity. If there's more than enough to go around then it's 50/50 of all assets (including pensions), if not then it's about needs.

He'll have a tough time proving that you put a gun to his head and forced him to have children with you and paying into a pension or buying shares, day after day after day! But when he promised 'til death do us part I assume he did this voluntarily too. Whilst he can regret his decisions, he can't unmake them. The children ain't going back in the same way they came out...

I always recommend the book 'Family Law Made Simple' by Gordon and Slater to help you understand all the different ways of getting divorced and what the process involves. It's complicated!

Essentially, you only get what you negotiate. You are quite entitled to walk away with nothing if that's what you chose.

As for a solicitor. A 'simple' divorce costs around 5 - 10K with a solicitor's help. If you end up going all the way to a final hearing, you can multiply that x2 for every time you have to go to court, and x3 or x 4 if you use barristers too. If you use top-end solicitors, well just add lots of noughts...

However, you can just use a solicitor for advice and do all the paperwork and legwork yourself (Wikivorce is handy) to keep costs really low (e.g. less than 2K).

So if you're going the solicitor route, then it's going to have to get you more than he's prepared to give. For some of us, that's not difficult to work out. It's not about being 'grabby' its about making sure you can provide for your children and their primary carer (you!).

However, irrespective of whether or not you use solicitors, if you can't agree between you, or via a solicitor, then you have the sheer joy of mediation, which is considerably cheaper, and which can be very successful at covering all the issues that need to be thought about. It can also be a jolly expensive waste of time. Occasionally, you can get a judge to excuse you from it but that's very rare.

So ask him for full disclosure now. Then propose mediation, but yes, do get some legal advice. Even if it's from a book.

Some useful info here: www.marilynstowe.co.uk

Oh, typically you'll be both poorer after getting a divorce - legal fees, two separate households to maintain. Don't go into a divorce expecting to come out richer *

*- Unless your name is Heather Mills.

That was about the first thing my solicitor said to me: it's no good saying we're divorcing but we both want the same lifestyle after it as before. It's simply not possible.

This is one of those cases where you could choose a solicitor that does mediation, and split the fees. I would think he should agree to it, also in his interests.

Regarding pensions, to pay for them he took money from the family pot to invest in them. They are not "his". They are the same as the money invested in the house and in savings accounts.

Regarding you working part-time, it saved money in child care, but it damaged your employability prospects and allowed his career to take precedence over yours.
In that sense, you should calculate your loss of earnings, and if you continue to work part-time to care for the children, then you should factor in your maintenance payments (in addition to the children's). That maintenance payment is often offset as a "lump sum" as a higher percentage of the couple's assets.

So, I'd work with a mediation solicitor or get a shit hot lawyer to sort out those amounts. It should pay off, I suspect.

Also, get yourself acquainted with what the law says about divorce and money.
www.citizensadvice.org.uk/relationships/relationship-problems/ending-a-marriage/
www.gov.uk/browse/births-deaths-marriages/marriage-divorce
www.divorceaid.co.uk/legal/process.htm

This means that a solicitor will spend less time explaining how it works for you and you could save money.

Also remember that you are negotiating.

If he is in business, or related, he will be used to it.

Start from the highest you would like to achieve, even a bit more, then start going down to meet in the middle.

Ignore what you have suggested so far.
Say you have had a good think, tell him how much time you will need, provided there is full disclosure. You need to know how much both your incomes have generated during your marriage. Not just the house.

Evening and HUGE thanks for all this top advice - it's so good to read.

The penny has dropped today after more tears and pushing for decisions from H. I've booked my solicitor for Wednesday to start the ball rolling for a financial separation - I feel comfortable with her for sure having seen another solicitor in the early stages and I didn't think she was any good. Wowzers I didn't know that's how much divorce costs - I just need the money sorted so I'm hoping it won't be anywhere near those costs.
I know I'm really lucky with what we have -
Total pensions = 114k (his more than mine)
Equity in house after fees = £130k
ISA each = £15k
Share save thing = 50k payout in 5 years including 10k in August
His bank account??
His bonus next month??

It's not big bucks at all but thank goodness there's something to work with. I'm feeling positive for Wednesday and am not getting into any more pressured conversations (texts/emails) until after then - it's been a stressful week.
Thanks again for listening - you've given me strength to do what I knew I should.....my confidence is smashed to pieces.
Hope today has been a good day for you all.
P.s the house I saw was mint! As we know I'm not in a position to move yet but again it's given me a boost.
Night x

OK, the pensions are probably too small to split. It would help if you gave a rough idea of the split but the sums are too low and the payout too far away (Im guessing you're both 30ish) to make much difference.

ISAs. You keep your, he keeps his.
Share save - don't count on that until it pays out. If its his, he'll probably get to keep it if you keep the house.

How much does he have in his bank account and what is his bonus? If its less than 5k its probably not worth the legal cost pursuing.

If you are going for the house and your figures are correct - and you do not want to bump up the price of the house when you are divorcing - then you'll need to pay your ex ~60K for his share. You will probably have to sell and split the money.

Good Luck.

You will probably need to start looking for a full-time job pronto. You days as a married woman are now over and you need now need a lot more income coming in.

I would guess you are looking at costs of 10k-20k.

Divorces are expensive. When you are dealing with not a huge amount of assets like yours - a rough + ready figure buts your joint current assets at ~150K there is a risk that one or both sides drag the process out and both sides leave with FA. The lawyers get paid; the always do.

Absolutely get a solicitor.

Exh put pressure on me not to involve solicitors but I didn't know what was fair and ex seemed to be plucking figures and percentages from the air. When I did get solicitors involved it did piss him off and things got very nasty. With children involved, pensions and equity in the house, you need legal advice. Don't make it up as you go along.

Of course there has to be full financial disclosure from both parties. That's only fair. If he is concerned about that, what has he got to hide?

Oh, as I was not clear. I do think you need a good solicitor - ask around.

But do keep an eye on the legal costs. A bad solicitor will lie about how much money you can realistically get - and then spend the marital assets trying to chase it.