Lundy Bancroft

[Mantara]

Why is he treated like some sort of demigod on this forum?

It's just 1 man's opinion. None of it is proven fact.

I don't doubt there is some truth in some of it but there's also loads of convenient , often incorrect, labelling gained from quoting him.

Right... from a quick check on the 'net, it appears Mr Bancroft has written at least 6 books to date. I have read only one of them. The one I have read consists of 16 chapters, one of which discusses 10 broad types of abusive man. The OP has read one small extract of one chapter and has not recognised himself in it. Therefore he concludes the author must not know what he's talking about! That's not what I call a thorough study. And you know what? I wouldn't expect the OP to recognise himself or, indeed, to see anything wrong in what he does, whatever that particular brand of fuckwittery may be. If he recognised his own behaviour, and acknowledged it was wrong, he'd have enough insight to at least make a fair attempt to stop doing it.

Ah but the OP does identify with 50% of that type.

Given that abusers don't tend to recognise they are abusers as to them tgey are normal, even recognition of 50% is a high proportion.

Can I just say that to criticize Lundy Bancroft for 'lack of academic credentials' is to criticize him for something he is neither claiming, nor aiming for.
One might as well criticize blue for not being red - misses the point rather.
Of course one would not quote Bancroft as an academic text in a dissertation - so? As far as I know, he has not asked for employment at any university.
Disagree with his arguments if you want to - that would make better sense.
FWIW - I have seen highly qualified therapists who say in their blurb they specialize in abuse.
They have:
asked me why I 'chose' to be abused.
asked me what I had 'learned' from the experience.
told me that dealing with financial destitution resulting from abuse was not something they talked about (they weren't accountants).
told me to consider the role birth order played in my choice of a abusive relationship.
wondered whether this was a 'pattern' - again of my choosing.
Oh, and, of course, asked me why I didn't leave earlier - and thought that leaving was the end of it.
Lots of letters after their names these people had ... .
The only 'pattern' in abuse - as pointed out in the freedom programme - is the presence of an abuser.

Fair point Joysmum. I'm intrigued now. Wonder which profile it was, and if he'd recognise up to 50% of any of the others.

Worth mentioning perhaps that the author himself doesn't claim these are absolutes. No one abuser may neatly fit into one category (though sometimes they do), and it's a rare example who displays those behaviours all the time. Obviously if they were that insufferable nobody would get into a relationship with them in the first place.

arthriticfingers, that is terrible victim blaming stuff

give me Bancroft any day

LB may not be academic enough for referencing in research work but he's done a huge amount of good in many lives.

In my own life he was what opened my eyes and gave me confidence to leave my physically, emotionally, sexually and financially abusive ex. He fitted many points of most of the 'types' - he could change tactic minute by minute. LB predicted with startling accuracy the pattern of events that followed our split including the reactions of other people.

The thing is, as I see it anyway, most folk who access LB books aren't writing a research paper. They are confused, scared, vulnerable. His books are perfect for those people. The two I have read were perfect for me.

I don't know who it was but I'm still grateful to the poster who bought and arranged for the book to be delivered to my friend as I had no access whatsoever to any money.

LB is academic enough that he is a set text on the MA program I'm doing.

He mentions issues such as drugs and MH, but points out that they are a separate point - they should be dealt with but are not the cause of abuse. Approx. 5 - 10% of abusers have some drug or MH issue, they may well be running alongside abusive behavior, but are not the cause of it.

I've worked in MH with abusive men in prisons and have also been in an emotionally abusive relationship.

Bancroft isn't thought of very highly academically in my circles and I'm not a fan for the issues previously raised by other posters.

It isn't revolutionary and there is no new perspective. All human beings fall into broad 'types' whichever way you look at them and abusers are the same. Abusers aren't unique because humans aren't. If you know enough about human behaviour and psychology you can understand how certain personality types respond to situations and predict future behaviour to a certain extent because none of us are really that different. There is no 'script' other than personality types will usually respond to events in a similar way.

BUT I have almost two decades of ongoing training, experience and qualifications in MH and psychology and understand all that.

If I didn't, I'd find Bancroft a revelation and that's why it's a valuable and easily accessible piece of work for people that don't have the background in MH or psychology.

And I've been around long enough in MH and on MN to see the trends. On MN for a while it was Shirley Glass and for a while now it's been Bancroft and 'narcs'.

And it'll change when the next thing comes along. That's life. It doesn't mean his work is invalid, I think it's great for helping victims see what is happening to them.

And the OP clearly has his own issues and agenda but taking his posts out of it, I do agree that no body of work or person should be beyond criticism or full appraisal and should not result in people thinking criticism must be because the person criticising must be an abuser, an abuse apologist or a 'handmaiden'.

Then it becomes less of a valuable piece of work and veers into 'cult' status in terms of 'you're with us or against us' and that's not what his work is about nor should it be interpreted as such.

Wow, there is an influx of what seem like male posters (although who knows if they really are?) telling the relationship board that ongoing supporters of domestic abuse are crap and that women just want banging and no conversation and love and relationships are Bollocks. This happened a couple of years ago on MN when another male orientated forum targeted MN and certain posters. I wonder if something similar is happening?

Arthritic - I'm really not sure exactly what I said to make you so furious.

Please advance search my posts if you want to know more about me or my posting on this site.

I am in no way doing any of those things that you are suggesting. I was agreeing with previous posters that said Bancroft doesn't provide footnotes (so therefore not backing up his 'studies') and I also don't agree with many of his 'abuser myths' as in; in my experience many abusers were abused in childhood or grew up in an abusive environment.

I have been in an abusive relationship. I was a victim of rape and serious physical assault as a teen. If you AS me you'll see I have spoken about this on other posts.

I didn't say anything at all that was victim blaming or apologist. I said the OP had an agenda but I didn't think people who don't 100% support Bancrofts work should be considered as sinister for doing so.

My post did not warrant the attack you just made. It didn't. I am usually very resilient (I have had to be, as you probably have had to be too and so many other women here) but your post has upset me a lot.

I worked with abusers and their victims. I know what happens. I know the statistics. I didn't say otherwise. My post did not deserve your response.

Arthritic

I just don't see Bundy bandied about as an unquestionable god on here.

He has written a great accessible book, based on many years of his hands on experience working with abusers and abused women.

Personally I struggled greatly with the question "why does my lovely otherwise perfect man, the man I love, abuse me?". If I hadn't spent years in confusion struggling with that, my children would not now be in a position where my XP is starting to focus his abusive ways on them. :(

Being recommended Bundy, and reading "Why does he do that" cut right through all the confusion and provided a clear answer. Which was empowering for me and helped me end the relationship.

My XP wasn't 100% a "type" in the book. Doesn't mean the books didn't make sense or wasn't relevant. I recommend the book on MN and in RL in the hope it may help someone else struggling in confusion, to wake up and find a way to seek the freedom.

This is the part of the book under question. OP is referring to type 1 or "Mr. Right".

www.facebook.com/notes/becka-nan-amos/abuser-profiles-from-why-does-he-do-that-by-lundy-bancroft/480862655302912

From the description here, it could be that somebody is saying "Hey, you're an abuser" OR it could be that somebody is saying "Hey, Mantara, sometimes I see you doing this kind of thing, it's kind of dickish. Maybe sort it out?" Or it could even be "LOL, this abuser book reckons that your normal laddishness is abusive. Totes hilair!!!" There are quite a lot of these kinds of things going around on Facebook at the moment. I saw one which told wives to stop nagging and criticising, and one which told women to stop worrying if their husbands look at other women. Countless articles about "What not to say to a gender fluid person" "How to understand a person with social anxiety" "Amazing insight into depression!" "Ten mistakes parents make when talking to their children" etc etc. Refraining from comment on any of these articles, it is a bit of a trend at the moment to be able to point out genuine mistakes in a humorous, lighthearted way but in the hope that the person really will take note and understand the effect that their words and/or actions will have on somebody.

Lundy Bancroft opened my eyes to what my ex was, and gave me the strength and realisation that yes, I can leave him. And leave him I did. And it was the wisest decision I've made in my entire life.

I went to my first session of counselling last week. It's through a DV organisation for women. I mentioned Why Does He Do That? And the counsellor looked at me blankly. She'd never heard of him! I was shocked tbh.

Yes, he is mentioned a lot on here. And with bloody good reason. His words empowered me and I'm forever grateful. He described my ex to a tee and made me realise I'm not mad. I'm so grateful to him.

Hello Mantara
Could you give an extensive response to your views now about Lundy Bancroft?
Has what has been stated changed your views? How extensive do you think Abuse is in our society? Have you had experience of Abuse?
Without honesty, and a full openness it's quite difficult to grasp where you are at.

I don't think OP is coming back.

Yes, seems they just wanted to have a pop at Lundy Bancroft. Sad to see that someone can be so flippant about Abuse, when it can cause damage, and such a pity that Abusers are so blinkered, because at the end of the day it's them that lose out the most in the end.

Clearly OP either had nothing much to say, wanted to goad, or got scared off by the intelligent replies.

So Mantara said someone showed him the Mr Right chapter and said 'this is you'. But he doesn't agree. The person who showed him the chapter was wrong. What is more, the whole of LB's experience, research and evidence is all wrong. And so are all the women who suffered abuse and find LB describing the men who have done it to them. And so, of course, he is saying he is right. And that proves he isn't Mr Right.

Mantara, can you see the problem with your logic?

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha