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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

what 'counts' as rape?

11 replies

oldbirdy · 13/05/2015 13:04

Old time poster here but namechanged for sensitive post.
Long story to explain circumstances and not drip feed.

When I was 18 and a virgin, I worked as a chambermaid at a hotel. The hotel had an outbuilding which was staff accommodation - single rooms - for young staff, I lived in one. Then I left, and came back that weekend for a farewell party. I had arranged with management to stay in my old room but no longer had a key for the accommodation block. This no problem as I was going out with staff.

We went out and had a good night. Whilst out some of the staff met a friend of theirs, a bloke. He obviously fancied me and whilst I didn't really fancy him I was young and naive and flattered and I chatted to him. He lived very close to the staff accommodation so shared a taxi back with me and let's call her Emma, who was letting me into the staff accommodation. Emma was very very drunk and had always thought I was a bit too sensible. She had had a child at 17 who lived with her parents and was much more streetwise than me. Only when we got back to the staff accomm, Emma went in and slammed the door behind her and then collapsed against the inside, giggling but flatly refused to let me in. She knew the guy BTW. I had nowhere to go, no key, it was early hours of the morning in a very small seaside town. So the guy said I could come sleep on his sofa and I went home with him.

What I wasn't expecting was that he stayed in the living room. I never saw beyond his living room but he wouldn't leave me alone and I had nowhere to go. I told him I was not intending to sleep with him and was a virgun. He said if I used tampons I wasn't a virgin. He told me he was infertile so it'd be ok (!) but I still refused. It was indescribably awful, I could hear a parent in the room above coughing their guts up and I just wanted to sleep. It was very late and he was just all over me, undid my shirt, my tits were covered in love bites the next day. I was very tired and a bit drunk and I can only assume that I fell asleep as the next thing I knew I felt him penetrating me. I still don't know what with, penis or fingers as I wasn't really with it at all. I literally jumped up and told him no and that if he carried on he would be raping me, at which point he did finally stop but stayed in the bloody room. I curled up face down on the floor and dozed until first light, when I let myself out and made my way back to the staff accommodation to wait for the early shift people to come out.

I used to think I was raped, but then I thought that was being overly dramatic so I stopped thinking it. But I do still wonder. I was sexually assaulted for sure, but did that penetration - even though it was only a few seconds and even though I don't know what he use - does that really count? Can you be 'a little bit' raped?

I am much older and wiser now and happily married and have put this episode to bed, but it just plays on my mind sometimes. Did he rape me?

OP posts:
RinkRashDerbyKisses · 13/05/2015 13:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

juneau · 13/05/2015 13:12

This is the definition of rape under English law:

Current legal definition of rape

The Sexual Offences Act 2003 (the Act) came into force on the 1st May 2004. The purpose of the Act was to strengthen and modernise the law on sexual offences, whilst improving preventative measures and the protection of individuals from sexual offenders. The Act extends the definition of rape to include the penetration by a penis of the vagina, anus or mouth of another person. The 2003 Act also updates the law about consent and belief in consent.

In which case you were raped if he penetrated you with his penis, but it would be sexual assault if he did so with his finger (or anything else), and since you're not sure what he used I'm guessing it would probably be classified as sexual assault. You can still report this to the police OP if you want to. Chances are he's done it to other women too. He may even have a record. Flowers

PeppermintCrayon · 13/05/2015 15:06

I'm so sorry OP but that was definitely rape.

Mide7 · 13/05/2015 15:15

I have nothing to add that people haven't already covered above about the differences but that sounds horrendous. Sorry that you experienced that.

notthestereotype · 13/05/2015 15:20

Yes it does count as rape and I'm very sorry.

Something similar happened to me twice and they were both my ex boyfriends. Both different circumstances, but both very traumatic and more traumatic with time and realisation. This is obviously where you are and what I would say, is once you get to that stage, it usually gets a bit better. Once you can understand what's happened and maybe get some help, professional, or otherwise, that's when you can start to move on. I was like you in the sense I wasn't really sure what had happened. Was I being dramatic? And did it happen to everyone behind closed doors? Now I understand what happened to me, I can start to heal and this will be the same for you.

Take care OP X

tribpot · 13/05/2015 15:22

That is a truly dreadful story, oldbirdy, and I'm so sorry that you went through it.

In terms of legal definition I think it has been covered above but certainly Rape Crisis would be worth a call to talk this through with someone. In one sense I think it 'doesn't matter' which it was, it was a despicable crime. But I can also understand why it's important to you to have the correct name for it.

RinkRashDerbyKisses · 13/05/2015 16:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GlitzAndGigglesx · 13/05/2015 16:33

Sorry for what you went through Flowers. Penetration with fingers or any object other than a penis is sexual assault by penetration which is still very serious. Any amount of time would class as rape

oldbirdy · 13/05/2015 18:03

I hadn't thought of the police,..it was many years ago and I am now a mum (went to college and jumped into bed with the first attractive guy who was willing, just a few weeks later, to get the taint of him off me). There is a bit of me that thinks he was not totally evil. I hadn't told him I didn't fancy him. I could have tried harder and longer to get Emma to open the door. I gave up fighting him mentally and verbally and just let him slurp all over my body as I lay on his living room floor and even fell asleep (I think). He did finally stop when I said the word 'rape' and didn't throw me out onto the street at 3 in the morning or hit me. I think he was sexually aggressive and coercive but I think he was shocked at the idea he may be raping someone. Maybe I taught him something? I cannot recall his name but I feel empowered at the thought that he could have been arrested and maybe even taken to court for what he did. Maybe he occasionally has a bad night thinking about what he did. I work hard to teach my son about consent, so maybe he taught me something too.

OP posts:
MrsKCastle · 13/05/2015 18:22

"I could have tried harder and longer to get Emma to open the door. I gave up fighting him mentally and verbally"

Please try not to think like this. It was NOT your fault in any way.

I'm glad that you feel empowered by the realisation that he committed a crime. You sound very strong to be facing up to this and naming it to yourself- good for you.

tribpot · 13/05/2015 20:11

You were in an incredibly vulnerable situation and you didn't know what might happen if you had continued to fight him. You didn't cause this to happen.

He would not be hard to track down if you did want to go to the police but that's entirely your choice and not something you need to decide on now.

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