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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

What to do about bullying adult child of DP

53 replies

bagface · 05/05/2015 11:20

My dp was absent for many years of his son's upbringing due to his own problems but for the last 10 years has been present and involved in the lives of all his children. His eldest son (lets call him Peter) is 26 years old and lives with his father, his grandmother (80 suffering from early dementia) and his half sister (19).

In the two years I have been with my partner (I live in my own house and my dp stays with me much of the time) the family have been through hard times with the death by suicide of dp's other daughter (23) (sister of Peter) a year ago leaving two dgcs with no mother. Peter refused to attend the funeral.

DPs son is bullying his grandmother and father and anyone who comes into contact with him. For years he did not work, he stayed in his room playing computer games and drawing dole and when that stopped because he was forced into a work or no dole scheme he suddenly got a job- working nights in a warehouse 24 miles away for which he demands lifts (his f has no car, he borrows mine).

He comes in from work and goes to bed and when he gets up he wanders around the house declaring it to be filthy and disgusting, he does no cleaning or tidying and finds excuses not to pay his dad the £20 per week he asks for towards bills. He swears at his father and calls him a freak and demands that his dad goes out to buy food or cigarettes for him and his father goes and shops for him. Peter will not go to shops or on buses or leave the house except for work. He wont have a bank account because he lost his passport and wont pay for a new one so he uses an account of his father's. He refuses to come down for meals insisting that they are brought to him in his room and rarely sees anyone outside but sometimes will go out with friends and when he does he gets so drunk that he ends up in fights and with losses of memory.

The family are at a loss to know what to do. Peter will not talk about anything so suggesting to sit and discuss anything will result in a rant, swearing and him retreating to his room. His dad is scared that he will also kill himself if he tries any kind of tough love. I keep my mouth shut but I can see how unpleasant it all is and when my partner and I discuss it we are at a loss to know what to do.

I think there is a personality disorder present in the son but how does this type of thing get diagnosed or helped if the person with the problem does not think they have a problem and everyone is so scared of him that they continue to allow him to rule the household. How can mental health services be sorted for someone in a situation like this? I am not sure if this should be in mental health or here but I know its affecting my relationship with dp who is struggling with what to do for his mother and daughter as well as his son.

OP posts:
bagface · 05/05/2015 22:07

Thanks again to everyone who has posted with with suggestions, they have all been really helpful. I have had a useful conversation with dp tonight about his role as a parent and the suggestion of not putting up with this from a child or another adult outside the family hit home I think.

We talked about dp going back to step 9 of dp's AA programme with Peter which might at least open an channel for them.

It is going to take a lot of small steps to start getting anywhere and I am becoming more aware of my role in enabling dp to escape when he needs to be there.

OP posts:
Jackw · 05/05/2015 22:16

I think the father needs some outside support. He is presumably caring for his mother with dementia, and a grandson who has psychiatric difficulties of some sort. This is all highly toxic and he must be at the end of his tether.

My dad had dementia and my mum had support in caring for him from all sorts of people and organisations: GP, Social Services, Age Concern, the local Alzheimers club. I think you (or actually your husband as it's really his responsibility) should start doing some research into what support is out there. Once the family is on the radar of all the support organisations, people will start to notice the problems with the son and you might be able to get help with him that way.

MatildaTheCat · 05/05/2015 22:20

I agree that grandmother is very vulnerable. This is a potential Safeguarding issue. Unfortunately if SS were to get involved it would probably be poor granny who ends up being moved out.

Your DP needs to help his son to move forwards.mgently and lovingly bit firmly. Other wise they will all be there in 20 years time in the same situation. I can't see Peter instigating any changes so DP will have to.

Very difficult. What a sad family.

Jackw · 05/05/2015 22:27

Social Services won't move grandmother out until things are really really desperate and you beg them on your knees, and probably not even then. They have no money and will try and keep her cared for at home if they can.

bagface · 05/05/2015 22:45

Anomoly thanks, I worry that I might be seen as interfering but I have come to love his daughter and mother over the time we have known each other and so I believe that as someone who loves through action I need to do something to try to help even if it just to say "something is not right, what can you/we/I do to help?". I have not been confident enough until now with Peter to say anything to him but I am now resolved to say something if it happens in front of me again (rather than staying silent and feeling sad that I might upset his dad if I do say anything). I will take the assertive route and state how I feel about what I have observed and see where that takes me...

OP posts:
springydaffs · 06/05/2015 00:32

Oh my goodness, what a terrible mess

My dear, I don't think this has that much to do with you. This is a powerful drama exclusive to that family - of which dp has played a significant part - then and NOW.

Step 9? Wtf? How much do you know about addiction, op? I suspect you may not know how deep and far-reaching it goes. But you are seeing it with your own eyes... yet are you seeing, bcs somehow dp has become the poor lost soul in this. No, dp's addiction has caused this to a very large extent.

So let's take some responsibility here, dp, instead of scuttling off to girlfriend's house the majority of the time to be smoothed and soothed (unlike them in that hell house). Which is it: is he back, or back in name only, leaving his nearest and dearest to be gobbled up in his active absence. As per previous.

Op, I wonder if you have any idea what this is really about.

I'm also not sure i buy his account of his ex, though it looks like you have.

springydaffs · 06/05/2015 00:44

Btw, you confront him and... well, you might be surprised at the ferocity of his response. I wouldn't do it [understatement] iiwy.

10 years dry doesn't mean dp is no longer an addict. Which is VERY clear if you knew what you were looking at op.

bagface · 06/05/2015 06:02

Springy, I know the ex, she has served time in prison for her crimes, what I know about her is not from dp, it's from experience.

I think you're probably right about the depth of this mess though not about ferocity of dp, he cannot do fierce, but he can do running away and I'm making it possible I can see that.

OP posts:
lunar1 · 06/05/2015 06:33

I feel so sad for Peter, he is an adult who grew up with two abusive neglectful parents. He has probably never been taught how to deal with the world and looks set to repeat the mistakes of his parents.

He is going to find someone who will put up with this behaviour and probably become an abusive neglectful partner/parent himself.

Has your dp been really honest with his son about how let down he was by both his parents? And that they need to find a way to improve things for the future. Your dp could try offering to pay for therapy. I hope there is a way to help Peter for everyone's sake.

Lurgano · 06/05/2015 10:02

Lots going on here - any chance that Peter is an alcoholic? Drink binges were mentioned up thread.

Small practical changes might help a bit - it is good that he is now working -- but night-shifts won't help his full integration to a normal social life for a 26 year old. Can he swap to days? Is he interested in progressing his career or retraining in anyway?

I really feel for the grandparents and the daughter as well.

springydaffs · 06/05/2015 10:16

I didn't mean dp, I meant Peter being fierce if you confront him.

I honestly don't think you realise what you're dealing with here. Are you an addict yourself (you didn't answer)? This family is crawling with addiction and serious dysfunction, alarmingly dysfunctional; and you're trotting out recovery lingo eg 'step 9' - as if the world knows what you're talking about, as if we're all in your recovery world. A recovery world that is being taught to you by an addict??!

He may be dry but it is blatantly obvious he is still an addict, still up to his neck in the addictive process. You need to do your own research here op, aside from dp, because at the moment it looks very like you're in a cult of two.

To that end, pay CoDA a visit, go along to the meetings. Your keen interest in 'love' (to save?) indicates you may fit there. As things stand, I think you may well be compounding an already desperate dynamic by wading in as, at least, dp's proselyte; when you may well have issues of your own

springydaffs · 06/05/2015 10:54

I'm sure you do 'know' her - through ex?? I'm sure I'd be a hair's breadth away from committing a criminal offence if I was married to someone as deeply in addiction as your dp.

I'm not saying I'm right about ex, just that the account you've been fed, and swallowed whole, is not necessarily the whole truth at all. The most obvious thing, except to you, is who is currently at the centre of this hideous scenario. You seem to have missed that by a mile and you are both now fully focussing, in your different ways, on the putrid result of years of hideously disordered parenting - which has caused deep damage.

Yy Peter is an adult but you need to back up a bit. Who caused all this - and, crucially, is STILL DOING IT.

Oh I get it: you blame the mad, frightening ex

bagface · 06/05/2015 19:25

springydaffs those posts were hard to read. I wonder why you are so convinced that I am co-dependent and a pushover and why you need to get your point across so harshly? Why do you assume that I have been fed a line and that you know me better than I do?

I came here with humility to ask for help with something that has been bothering me and I have had many thoughtful responses for which I am grateful. I have asked if I am interfereing or in danger of interfereing and am willing to hear views that suggest I am on dangerous ground and to back off doing anything.

I am not however willing to be acused of being an addict or stupid, I am a grown woman and I am mentally healthy. I do not believe that a recovering addict is a leper and that only unhealthy people would go near him. I do see the patterns of addiction and have begun to wonder about dp and if he is still stuck in his old patterns albeit dry. I would prefer you to lay off the ranting at me and shouting as if I am in some way to blame for any of this. I am not. I am trying to decide if there is anything I can or indeed should do to support the people in whose lives I am now involved.

For your information the ex was imprisoned for child neglect of other children that she went on to have with 2 subsequent fathers. Social services have said she is to have no contact with her dcs or gcs. I have met the dcs and the ex and the fathers. I can make my own judgements and am not fed lines by my dp. He needs to step up I agree, and it is both of them that caused this problem for the poor lad who is struggling.

This is a horrid mess, and I am in it but have the luxury of not having to stay if I don't want to. Thanks for the information abotu CoDA I dont think I will use it, it is not my diagnosis.

OP posts:
springydaffs · 06/05/2015 22:36

Have you looked? At CoDA I mean. What about it makes you protest so much?

Coyoacan · 06/05/2015 22:52

From my very unexpert point of view, your DP feels tremendously guilty for his past abandonment/mistreatment of his son and is now trying to make up for it by letting his son get away with blue murder. All wrong. The past cannot be undone and a 26-year-old cannot be treated as a child.

The son might benefit from Al-Anon, but who is going to persuade him?

bagface · 06/05/2015 22:58

Yes, I have and I don't need a 12 step programme. This is not about me.

OP posts:
springydaffs · 07/05/2015 00:56

It is about you. You are posting, you are not a bystander, you are very much part of this dynamic and you have posted to say you are considering burrowing in deeper re confronting Peter. You also say you love the daughter and the grandmother: you are part of this, you are involved.

You can effect change, albeit not directly, simply bcs you are involved in this dynamic. The suggestion of Al-anon is a good one - for you. Please go - it is a crucial resource when one is involved with an alcoholic (dry or otherwise).

bagface · 07/05/2015 13:52

Thanks Springydaffs. I appreciate you taking time to respond to my posts.

OP posts:
Lurgano · 07/05/2015 17:00

Bagface - take a look into the difference between dry and sober for your DP.

Also do you think that Peter may have issues with alcohol - binge drinking for instance?

I see where springydaffs is coming from. Co-dep behaviours are with the very best of intentions but by the over involvement it both enables dysfunctional behaviour in others and disempowers them from taking full responsibility and consequences for their choices and actions.

This might be happening here - or it might not - it is a v fine line between appropriate encouragement and support to dysfunctional co-dependance which is a toxic corroding cycle.

bagface · 07/05/2015 18:29

I am not co-dep, how many times do I have to say this ? Please dont diagnose me. I did not come here for a diagnosis for me, I came for coping strategies with Peter. I have looked at many co-dep sites and I do not fit the checklists. I can live happily alone, I dont have low self esteem, I dont rush into trying to fix things, I did not have alcoholic parents, sorry to dissapoint you guys who want me to have a problem too. I am not perfect, I have up days and down days but in general I would describe myself as averagely mentally healthy with an outlook honed by life experiences that have been horrid, great, awful, mediocre and fabulous.

I use the word dry, dp uses the word sober to describe himself or "in recovery" . DP would not use "dry" that was my choice to illustrate that he no longer drinks.

I think Peter knows his relationship with drink is not healthy, he rarely does it. But when he does it is catastrophic. He loses his phone, his wallet, his passport, his dignity, his friends. So mostly he doesnt touch it. But he won't seek help for that because in his view he doesnt do it very much so he is not like his dad.

OP posts:
springydaffs · 07/05/2015 18:45

I have to say that, altho you may not be codependent [about which, incidentally, I have no vested interest either way], you do need to get genned up on the unbelievable intricacies of addiction. It is fabulously complex and, without very specific knowledge and information, it is very likely that one could complicate an already dire situation with the best of intentions. I suppose the best way to present this is that normal rules don't apply.

Hence eg al-anon, coda, to get the necessary info about the intricacies of addiction, how it can play out, the hallmarks.

Though brace yourself: it is likely that members could strongly suggest you are codependent. If you kick off I'm afraid that could only confirm the likelihood - particularly as codependency generally doesn't come dressed with bells on but usually looks benign. Can you rein in heated denials to get through to necessary info is the point.

Lurgano · 07/05/2015 19:02

The experiences and behaviours Peter has with alcohol would define him as an alcoholic / having a drink problem.

There are many different patterns of alcohol consumption which are alcoholic behaviour (eg binge drinking).

The fact that he avoids it is a good thing - but if he does not acknowledge an under lying problem he will only ever be 'dry' between episodes during which anger is the main emotion - as he is treading water and this is exhausting.

I am glad that you DP sees himself as sober. As he has done the AA 12 steps - can he see Peter as an alcoholic? - or could he be deliberately ignoring/avoiding this possibility - maybe due to some guilt or being overwhelmed that he cant handle his sons pain?

Meerka · 07/05/2015 19:12

It's a 'when did you stop beating your wife' thing isn't it.

Or a psychoanalysis: If you deny something, it's proof that you are in denial. The fact that it might not be even be there at all is irrelevant. In a relationship with an ex-addict of 10 years? Of course she's co-dependent! Denying it = She Is Wrong. Getting annoyed? Solid proof she's co-dependent!

I'd say that if AL-Anon is really full of people who will tell you you're co-dependent, it's probably the wrong place for you. Sometimes people can't see patterns and need an outside perspective but it sounds like she'll just get more hassle.

OP, no one here knows you IRL and while it's worth just considering some options, you know yourself and the situation best. You sound like a perfectly nice, perfectly normal person to me. Agreed that you need to (gently) challenge your partner to stand up to his son, though the son isn't going to like it. But you know yourself best.

springydaffs · 07/05/2015 21:21

Meerka, the recovery community is full of touchy, difficult people who often can't help categorising. However, imo beggars can't be choosers and there is often solid gold to be found in among the shit. All very human and how people often are when they've suffered a lot.

I also think if you're up against it you take what you can get. 12-step works - well documented.

fluffapuss · 09/05/2015 00:42

Hello Bag

Sounds like a difficult situation

Suggest some tough love

You dont need a passport to open a bank account (not everyone has passport or driving license)
You can use other forms of ID eg birth certificate, bill in their name, go to bank in person
If necessary get your partner to shut his account & open a new totally seperate one
The son should have his own account
This is something that is easily sorted out

At 26 he should be making his own way to & from work either via public transport or own transport, bicycle, car, moped - "demands lifts" really just say no ! Suggest he gets a loan or a cheap run around

At 26 he should be able to shop for his own food & cigarettes

£20 is not enough - increase or move out