Have you ever come across a Sociopath / Psychopath?

[Bursarymum]

I've been reading 'The Sociopath Next Door'. And it got me thinking. Psychopathic killers are rare but it seems those without any conscience are not so rare.

My dad is a sociopath. He molested me. One positive I can take from it is that it's left me with a very heightened sense of danger from people. My instincts I trust when someone says something that just rings a little faraway warning bell.

There are a lot of them out there. I tend to steer a wide berth whenever I get a warning bell. There is one woman in the last 3 years I've worked with who I know without doubt is a sociopath. Others I tend to avoid before I get enough evidence to make my mind up, if you know what I mean.

Pocketsaviour - I'm sorry that happened to you :(

I read that 4% of people are sociopaths. So it's not rare. But obviously psychopathic killers are rare thank goodness. Anyone like this wreaks havoc in their victims lives though. The lies and the manipulation, and the realisation that what they presented to you was nothing more than a mirage and then the cognitive dissonance that follows.

Galrick you said I also think some people with diagnosed ASDs are actually sociopathic. But that's not a medical opinion either!

I've just realised one of my posts has been deleted and had people asked why I thought my husband was a sociopath and why my children preferred to think of him as being VHF I would have explained the cross over on how things can present on a day to day basis. And I find it ridiculous that anyone would think I was saying people like my son are sociopaths and I guess people just see certain words and lose the ability to actually read what a person is saying such is their outrage.

So here's the reality, I know my husband is a sociopath because I sought advice, but my children will say to me no mum, he's on the spectrum because he thinks like DB in so many ways and lots of things we do with DB work with dad. I used to do it as well.

This is our life experience and if you are living life in an extended family where very serious mental health problems are prevalent, in fact my own mother died in our local psychiatric hospital - we are allowed our thoughts as to where one thing starts and another thing ends.

In the old day ASD was called Childhood Schizophrenia due to the similarities in the two conditions and we now know there is more ASD in families where there is Schizophrenia and Bi-polar disorder.

Who knows? Perhaps some day there will be research done to back up a link between ASD being more common in families where certain other conditions exist.

People may not like the thought but Im not alone in noticing similarities between the two and if adults who are on the spectrum are happy to discuss this on their forums, as are other parents, Im not going to be shutting up for anyone any time soon.

My adoptive dad belongs somewhere on this thread.
Thankfully I'm NC now but it still makes me sad I can't have a relationship with my adoptive mother because of him.

I worked for one back in the eighties. She was later convicted of attempted murder of the co-owner of the company, serving only seven years because she managed to convince the judge that her twins needed her. She was utterly ruthless and evil, manipulative, convinced of herself. Quite terrifying to be in her presence. I still have the press cuttings.
I have wondered about my ex too, he's not evil like the exboss but is a serial womaniser, unable to hold down any relationships, doesn't see the problem with lying, and always uses his name when he's relaying a conversation to you too. Utterly unreliable and has a massively inflated sense of his own value to the rest of the world. Has lists of famous women he's managed to get into bed, like it's a hobby no different than stamp collecting. He didn't set out to hurt people though, it was just an inevitable by product of being the person he was. But maybe he's just a dick.

There is a difference between psychopaths and sociopaths

www.medicaldaily.com/whats-difference-between-sociopath-and-psychopath-not-much-one-might-kill-you-270694

It's generally accepted that psychopaths are more likely to be violent

Is it an inherent thing then, or just a behaviour?

Can people learn to feel empathy? I guess it would be impossible to tell as sociopaths tend to be very good at reacting correctly emotionally.

Thank you for your reply, Yikes. I understood what you were saying about your ex and children, and am very surprised your post was deleted. I'm sorry that you've had to gain so much knowledge for personal reasons.

In the comment you quoted, I didn't mean ASD children who've been through contemporary SN diagnostics. I mean adults who've sought an Asperger Syndrome diagnosis, either under pressure from people close to them or (sometimes) for their own purposes. A specialist performing such a dx does not have access to the patient's criminal record or any other objective input. If the patient presents asking to be examined for ASD, that is what they get.

I've also known, personally, two prolific child sexual abusers with histories of extreme cruelty, who were diagnosed by Court-appointed practitioners as having Asperger's. This reduced their sentences very significantly. It's a relatively easy disguise for people with some spectrum disorders of another kind.

@Frostycake totally agree with what you say about them being so charismatic and attractive. With the one i know, absolutely everyone is blinded and in awe of her - older people, teenagers, office juniors, senior managers, everyone. I swear she could commit a murder and people would still follow her.

Its only me and 1 other colleague who have experienced her dark side who really see her for what she is and know what shes capable of. Its terrifying tbh.

Elsa, I have said that before and got a response from others. Once you spot one you spot others.

Sorry havent read the whole thread. But yes i agree JoanH , i am so tuned into them now! P/S/N red flags send me screaming for the hills! ;-)

I am interested and a bit concerned by what was said upthread about the tendency for sociopaths/narcs to parrot things which have been said, verbatim.
I know a sociopath/narc who has caused appalling problems. Her son does this thing of lifting exact phrases which I have used. I'm sure he doesn't realise he is doing it. He is extremely clever, but also has what I call logic gaps, which sounds like what Galrick refers to upthread. unexpected misunderstandings and weird gaps in verbal reasoning I don't think the definition of semantic aphasia fits him though.

I don't think the son is a narc, though he can be self-absorbed and sometimes has a lack of empathy. But it's interesting to read about the verbatim phrases, and the logic gaps being traits of sociopaths.

Can anyone shed more light on this? Is it just maladaptive behaviour (aka narcissistic fleas) which he developed to protect him from a narc mother, or are these actual narcissistic/sociopathic traits in their own right?

The N I was involved with regularly referred to himself as 'a legend' and he was not joking! He did the using his own name thing mentioned earlier on the thread. He was so insincere. He would sit there saying to me 'I'm just admiring your bone structure' LMAO

Oh, I certainly wouldn't think that someone lifting phrases is indicative of P/S/N unless it was combined with more telling symptoms - the big ones are lack of empathy and control and manipulation of others.

This is certainly something that interests me as well though.

The N I know doesn't know what 'cosmopolitan' means for example. He uses it completely out of context.

My ex loved to tell me he was a guru in his field of excellence. I used to feel for him and think ah bless him he doesn't realise we all get colleagues ask for help from time to time.

Re semantic aphasia in the sociopath, see Hervey Cleckley and Henry Head. It's not the same dysphasia described in the NHS guidance I linked to, which is for physicians of stroke patients. This is because the neurological damage causing dysphasia after a stroke is fairly well-defined and the symptoms quantifiable. In sociopathy, the neurological significance is unknown.

By semantic, Cleckley meant the ability to emotionally experience or understand "the meaning of life as lived by ordinary people". He acknowledged there was no proof or even evidence that this was the underlying condition, but believed that it helped explain the traits and behaviours he observed. As an example to explain the kind of distinction he was drawing between an ability to appear superficially normal despite a core deficit in meaning, he made an analogy to a neurological language disorder known as semantic aphasia.

Cleckley wrote The Mask Of Sanity in 1941. Wikipedia and extracts with more detail on this.

I used to feel for him and think ah bless him he doesn't realise

Argh, me too! I patiently explained what people meant by such-and-such, and gave very carefully worded descriptions of how certain social set-ups work.

It didn't cross my mind to wonder HOW the fuck a functioning adult of good intelligence had reached his thirties without learning this stuff!

Narc XH, by contrast, was a genius at social situations - only slightly marred by his love of talking about how great he was.

The vast majority of my life with my ex was fine but there was always something "off" about him. It was like he'd read a book about being a normal person and had put in the effort but it was as a means to an end.

When I left him, he reacted angrily. Not in a threatening way so much as a confusion that I was allowed to have my own mind and my own life. Seriously fucking creepy! The abuse was nothing compared to the lack of humanity in him

Through therapy groups, I've also met some diagnosed psychopaths who understand themselves and consciously avoid inflicting harm

I have a lot of respect for these people. The ones without the inner conscience but who still try their best to avoid hurting others. They're hamstrung but still try their best.

Met one socio/psychopathic person. She was pitiable, but you had to keep your distance. She wasn't vindictive but could easily be violent over the smallest things and without remorse. She really didn't understand why it wasn't acceptable.

What an interesting thread. I once had a very brief, intense and personally very damaging relationship with a man, and years later I am still left wondering why he behaved in the way he did and why I let it happen.

So much of what has been said resonates. He used to take phrases I said and analyse, quote and misunderstand them. He would behave one way one day and completely differently the next, I was treading on eggshells all the time in case he was upset in someway. He would 'watch' me and then describe what I had been doing later. He came across as vulnerable and needy, but also incredibly arrogant and controlling. He certainly had no moral compass at all and everything centred around him and his world. He made me feel scared and entralled at the same time. I felt in some weird way that he needed me.

In the end I had a complete breakdown and had to leave a large part of my life behind to avoid any contact with him. A sociopath makes sense to me.

The behaving as if he had learned it from a book, is how it felt. Nothing felt real, you could almost see him suddenly remember to behave in a specific way, almost like a jerk automated reaction.

I was 'raised' by one unfortunately. Fucked up my childhood and most of my early adult years and I have the emotional scars today.

Have another in the family as well.

Known a few people who I heavily expected were sociopaths.

This is really interesting, my mother was a narc and constantly mispronounced words, she also spelled and pronounced people's names incorrectly and never took on board any attempt to put her right.

I lived (as a housemate) with a sociopath. I could write a book. I ended up formally terminating our acquaintance as he didn't accept any of the normal social signals that I couldn't bear him. I was genuinely afraid of him by the time he moved out; when I got into a serious relationship he was outraged and honestly believed that I had wronged him in some way. His sexual behaviour was quite deviant from what I gathered, and he was always holding forth about how people should behave but when his own actions fell woefully short there would always be some incredibly convoluted reason why it was 'ok'.

My dad probably fits the description of a psychopath more than sociopath when I googled the difference between the two.

He has no conscience at all, not a weak one, he doesn't have one full stop.