Have you ever come across a Sociopath / Psychopath?

[Bursarymum]

I've been reading 'The Sociopath Next Door'. And it got me thinking. Psychopathic killers are rare but it seems those without any conscience are not so rare.

[lastlines]

ASD and sociopathy/psychopathy are worlds apart!

All the ASD people I've ever known have a very strong (often pompous and opinionated, but nevertheless very pronounced) sense of right and wrong, of morality. They may not come across as empathetic because they can't grasp what another person needs or wants, but they do actually care about other people quite deeply. When they are selfish it is because they are wrapped in their own world that runs on rigid tracks, and not because they think the sole purpose of the world is for it to provide for them.

The similarities are superficial. Underneath, I think entirely different values operate.

LadySybil I think any man who walks out on a pregnant woman or young family has psychopathic tendencies. You can't set the moral bar much lower than that.

[MrsFring]

Please don't link personality disorders with ASD. People on the AS spectrum have social intent and the capacity for love and friendship, they just lack the ability to pick up social cues. I've never met anyone on the AS spectrum who could be described as calculating or manipulative.

[Galrick]

Yes, and psychopaths are brilliant at picking up social cues. Narcs, maybe not so much: they're easily dazzled by flattery.

[Galrick]

A lot of psychopaths, however, have semantic aphasia. This led me - and others - to think XH2 was a bit ASD, and to make allowances when I should have made my way out of the room!

[somethingmorepositive]

Galrick, by semantic aphasia, do you mean the thing sociopaths do where you end up arguing with them over the definitions of common English words?

[LadySybilLikesSloeGin]

Ah, he lowered that bar by not bothering to tell ds that his grandfather had died, lastlines. He died in November and I found out a week before ds's birthday by getting carried away with a google search. I think his mum has issues. I watched her slap her granddaughter across the legs for dragging a brolly on the floor. A week later she said she'd never raised a hand to any of her children or grandchildren. Then there was the time she turned up unannounced to ds's school during the day and asked for a copy of ds's school report...

[TheBoov]

I work with one. I make sure I am now always at arms length. Very unpleasant indeed.

[Galrick]

Kind of. It means unexpected misunderstandings and weird gaps in verbal reasoning. Technical info.

[Galrick]

Sorry, that was to somethingmorepositive :) XH was always asking me to explain what someone had meant, and I often spent days figuring out the precise words to use if I needed to talk about a social or emotional concept.

[ArabellaStrange]

I nearly ended up in a relationship with one but thankfully swerved it at the last moment (ended up in a and e on suicide watch because he had done such a number on me).
And currently on the course I am doing I think there is one.
She comes across, to me, as supremely manipulative and overbearing in terms of charming people but at the same time, is definitely two faced. She knows I don't like her and we mostly avoid interacting with each other but it's so difficult when practically everyone takes her superficial charm at face value and therefore has a lot of time for her. I am not a charming person and nor do I want to be, which in terms of group dynamics puts me at a disadvantage.

[Curioushorse]

I have taught a couple. One went on to commit murder. We, his ex-teachers, were unsurprised.

[somethingmorepositive]

Interesting, Galrick. That sounds much different than the narcissistic abuse tactic of "not understanding" things.

[YikesFeelingScared]

I have experience of loved ones on the spectrum including an adult son, I have relatives who have Schizophrenia, and I was married to a sociopath or psychopath for a lifetime. My own mother had Bi-polar disorder.

The reality is that there are similarities between how ASD and Personality Disorders present. I know my husband is not on the spectrum but my children prefer to think he is on the spectrum and VHF because when they look at him thats how he presents to them.


Im very interested in just how all of these conditions are related and I like to think of more than autism being a spectrum disorder and just where does the crossover between the spectrums lie.

[seaoflove]

One "tell" I have learned - which works for narcissists, anyway - is that when they are telling their (well-rehearsed and charming) anecdotes about themselves, they use their own names a lot. Eg. 'So then he said to me, "Oscar, the shark is in that tank.... And by the way, Oscar, I was very interested to hear...." ' Never gloss this over if you hear someone doing it

That's fascinating. I'll have to look out for that.

[LadySybilLikesSloeGin]

I think there's a lot of overlaps of disorders, Yikes. ASD/Dyspraxia have common traits, it's the experts who differentiate between the two as it's very difficult to tell. I'd imagine ASD has very similar traits to other conditions too, I don't think it's the same as Sociopath/Psychopath though. I remember watching a TV documentary which said frontal lobe development was connected to Sociopathy/Psychopathy.

[JoanHickson]

It is two ends of a spectrum of unusual brain structure attracting like magnets. They are both issues with the amygdala. ASD has a more emotional personality type empathy for others and so on due to an enlarged amygdala, where as the Antisocial types have little or no empathy or amygdala.

[MrsFring]

I also have an adult child with ASD and an ex with psychopathic traits. I know a great many people on the AS spectrum; however self-absorbed or emotionally absent (to stereotype wildly) some may appear there is no deficit in their desire for human warmth or connection. Just a problem - to a greater or lesser extent- in achieving those connections.

My ex had the emotional deficit at his core but was a master at concealing it. No soul, if you like.

[LadySybilLikesSloeGin]

Ds has a social skills delay (like ASD). He's not at all self absorbed or emotionally absent. Does like to be right though.

[Bursarymum]

To compare psychopathy with ASD is offensive in the extreme. I am going to report that post.

[JoanHickson]

Do you mean mine? If so I can give you two studies into brain structure?

[Bursarymum]

People with ASD are actually very empathetic - the ones that I know. They just don't always respond the same way as NT people. I remember crying in a room full of people. The only person who came to ask if I was ok was a guy with Aspergers. Please don't make ignorant remarks. ASD is a disability.

Psychopaths don't feel emotions. But they understand the emotions of normal people and they exploit and manipulate them to cause the maximum harm possible.

[JoanHickson]

One was conducted by Jim Fallon in USA, the other by Jessica Eccles in Brighton.

[MrsFring]

Sorry, LadySybill I didn't mean to be offensive; my daughter isn't any of those things either, she just struggles socially. I'm just a bit rattled that anyone could think that there could be a correlation between ASD and psychopathy, I find it very upsetting tbh.

[JoanHickson]

That is what I was saying, they are opposites like north and south poles.

[Galrick]

Joan, I've heard a colloquial - I'm not trying to be a neurologist here - description of the perceived similarities, which went thus:

In ASDs, a person has too few filters for sensory & emotional input. This being intolerable or difficult to process, they try to cope by 'shutting down' and blocking off random chunks of input. So it comes across as inept & offensive to NT people.

Sociopaths have extremely rigid filters. Where NT folks are instinctively flexible in our filtering, and decide moment by moment what to block or absorb, people with PDs simply do not receive or process anything outside their fixed filters. (And, as we know, can get very cross if pushed to try!) Because they're able to process what does come in, we take longer to notice there's something missing in their responses.

I know there's some controversy about whether psychopathy is a true personality disorder. Psychopaths process everything but in a different way from the rest of us. Afaik, though, there is an under-developed amygdala which would support the idea that it's a 'pure' expression of sociopathy.