Abused sister

[itsallawry]

My dsis has been in an abusive relationship for 15 years. He is abusive in every way. Over the years things have got worse, he has put knives to her neck, thrown bleach in her face, strangled her, he likes to lock her in her bedroom for a couple of days at a time (usually around a religious festival) all the while tormenting her through the door, steals her money, has made her have ALOT of children, he has actually jumped out of a car and mugged her on the street taking her handbag ( with their children there), likes to threaten to kill the kids pets, made her discharge her self from hospital when she was seriously ill etc. The children have witnessed everything.
Despite all this she won't leave ( they dont live together, but close to each other) and I don't know what to do anymore. I'm scared for her and her children, especially the girls as he has said some pretty abhorrent things in the past (once they can bleed they can breed, wanting to marry them off at 13 to stop them being " slags' etc), he had an affair with a 15 year old and attempted to groom me when I was younger.
If reported them to children's services several times and the police, which resulted in her cutting me out for 2 years. When we got talking again I couldn't believe how disturbed her children had become. They behave oddly, very violent, make animal noises etc.

I'm now at a loss over what I can do. Nobody seems to care about the kids or my sister. Sometimes she phones me while he is beating her and I have to listen to her screams befor the phone goes dead. It makes me feel physically ill with worry. If I phone the police or children's services they do nothing though. I'm so worried he is going to kill her. How can I help them??!

( sorry if its a bit of a ramble, I can't think about it all clearly and just needed to get it out)

It's time to make a nuisance of your self. Phone every day. Go to the police station and social services. Follow up with emails to confirm your visit and what was said. Keep shouting until you are heard.

The counterterrorism units will have access to a hell of a lot of information from sources you and I wouldn't have; if you mention "a camp in Derbyshire" they are likely to know exactly where and when etc. I would call them. Any chance of getting this man away from your sister has to be taken, surely?

report report report. Everything. To the police. The nspcc. The social services. Keep doing it until the situation changes. They are duty bound to protect those kids.

Record the phonecalls that she makes to you. Record anything you see or hear, no matter how small or inisgnificant to how horrible. Everything.

They have to act, otherwise they are breaking the law.

Worse case scenario, if your sister does not leave him and he is a danger to the children (which he is) they will remove the children into foster care where they are safe. This sounds drastic but is done to protect them from immediate physical harm. It really sounds like this is what needs to happen as they are clearly scarred mentally at least. It does not mean she'll lose custody, if she leaves him she'll get them back if she's a safe person for them to be with. Also, she won;t lose contact with them.

Good advice from Meerka there

Across is also spot on imo when she said upthread: Unfortunately, your sister is an adult and has the 'right' to stay in an abusive relationship. ... But you must do your utmost to protect the children up to and including getting them removed from the home AND from your sister.

The dc are the route to getting him out of all of their lives.

Would your ds go to her doctor? Would she go to a refuge?

Otherwise could you SAFELY get any form of evidence. A mobile phone recording?

Just bear in mind that she's staying with him out of terror. It really isn't a choice. You don't "choose" a life of terrorism. We don't know what he's been saying to her. Many women feel they may lose their children of that their spouse will be given more unsupervised access to them and they think it's better if they're around at least.
It may be frustrating for you, but do understand that your sister is a victim of severe abuse, terrorism, really and people react in strange ways. Bonding with the abuser is a well documented survival technique. It's called stockholm syndrome, or trauma bonding.
Good Luck and those children are lucky to have an aunt like you.

Thank you everyone for all your advice. I am taking it all on board.

Is going into care likely to damage the kids more though? I'm sure they would be split up.

Iv been looking into contacting the counterterrorism unit but that might be overkill as I doubt he would every do anything, he's quite a coward.

Ever*

With respect, itsallawry that's a call the counter terrorism people need to make. There are many ways he could be involved, not just direct action. I feel for you - you are in an awful position.

will it damage them more than hearing their mother beaten regularly and screaming? than being told the girls should marry at 13 otherwise they will be slags? that's terrible for both girls and boys to hear. Mugging her in front of the children?

these children are making animal noises and 'acting very oddly'. These years are laying down their future lives and right now those lives are being fucked up in ways I've thank god seen only very rarely.

You could not damage these children worse unless you took them to ISIS territory and sold them there. I knew a child who was kept in a cupboard for years who was treated less badly than these children, making a few educated guesses about what else is going on.

They are going through hell and presumably without any wise person to tell them, and model to them, a better way of being a parent.

Step in, OP. It might be too late for them - maybe - but it will definitely be too late for them unless someone does.

I'm sorry if I'm causing anyone frustration but it just isn't clear cut for me. If I report the situation again he and/ or my dsis might try to hurt me or my child. I can't allow my child to come to harm.

No, I appreciate that. no matter what else, your children have to come first. That is the right choice and you can't put them at risk.

If you believe that you are at serious risk, do at least go to the counterterrorism unit. You have enough suspicions - more than enough - to go to them anyway. As a side effect it's possible that longer term it might have some beneficial fallout for the children if he has to moderate his behaviour.

I'm sorry if I came over frustrated. To answer the question you asked: would going into care damage the children worse than the current situation? Extremely unlikely. Not quite impossible but it's considerably more likely that they'll have much better caring than they do now. Maybe someone with direct experience of the social care system could let you know more.

To anwser the question (as an adopter) 'would going into care damage the children further'?

The simple anwser is no. The situation that these children are in now IS FAR more damaging. I know as I have to parent a child that has been exposed to this; even though they have been in a loving family for years, I still have to parent theraputicially to try and unpick this damage.

Will the counterterrorism unit take me seriously? I know very little, I can't even be exact about the dates.

I worry about the care thing so much. It seems easy for people to abuse kids in care homes and it would hurt them to be separated.

it'sall your first priority is your own safety and that of your child, agreed.

IF you decide to contact SS again, suggest that you actually plan how to do it and to try to gather evidence. Record the calls. Record as far as is safe and possible what your sister says to you and the contact with the children and the evidence of disturbed behaviour. It may be worth contacting the head of the school they are at and talking to them about the situation; not necessarily to ask directly for help (you shouldn't approach social services again until you have got some firm evidence, I imagine) but for advice.

Recording evidence is your friend, over and over and over. I also think it would be an idea to contact a children's charity, explain the situatoin and the difficulty and ask them the best way to go ahead. Since previous SS investigations haven't done anything this will need careful approaching.

But you are definitely doing the right thing in being concerned and considering taking action. This man is very destructive.

Thank you Phoenix, it sounds like you are a great parent.

Thank you Meerka. I will start recording evidence as best I can and I think your right about contacting children's charities, I will do that soon.
I am sorry if I seem to be going round in circles, its all quite a muddle to think about but this thread has helped a lot. I really do appreciate everyone's input.

When you call the counterterrorism unit, focus only on the facts regarding him and possible radicalization. Don't mention the domestic abuse issues. Only the 'camp' and any radical statements he's made (if any). Any threats (even in passing speech) against the government, potential targets, or other people. Any radical people or organizations you know of that he's consorted with.

The unit isn't going to concern itself with the domestic abuse issues, that's for local police and social services. And you don't want them to think you're only reporting him because because you're angry at his treatment of your sister & the children.

I don't think you're going around in circles. You're just trying to see from every angle to see if there are things you haven't thought of to help your sister.

wishing you the best of luck itsallawry. my half sisters were being mistreated though nowhere near on the scale of your sister's children, and I wasn't able to step in and help. You're doing the right thing. Doing it carefully gives you a better chance of a good outcome.

I will try and find some evidence of his radicalism, he gave me some extremist literature about 10 years ago I might still have it somewhere. (Though its doubtful).

Don't worry about evidence. All you need to do is tell them you're reporting your suspicions. It's up to them to decide what to do about them. Just tell them what you know and they'll take it from there. I'm sure they'll have questions and you may be surprised at what you remember or can confirm for them once they start asking you things.