DD, XH and differing versions of events

[DevonFolk]

DD is 4, almost 5. Her dad and I split up just before she was 1. He has a history of EA.

Recently after contact DD has come out with stuff that either I knew about and we (me and XH) had agreed wouldn't be mentioned to her, or telling me about things that have happened at his house.

When I've queried it with him, he tells me something different, either denial that he's told her anything or offering a different version of what has happened.

I'm stumped. I have no reason to doubt DD and, despite my policy not to question her about time with her dad, her story has always held up. I know 4 year olds are likely to misinterpret things or remember wrong, but there's something niggling with me.

Has anyone experienced this with such a young child? I've heard of older children making things up to play one parent off against the other, but DD's not old enough to be thinking like that. Or is she?

She is old enough. Manipulation can be learnt at a very young age. We have this problem with DSD. She regularly tells us her step dad hits her and talks about DP's break up with her mum that we have never mentioned to her. This is always flatly denied and a different story given from her mum and stepdad, who we have had to work hard to build a co parenting relationship with. She's been doing this since she was 4.

I don't really have any advice I'm afraid. We muddle through as best we can taking the more unbelievable things with a pinch of salt, making records of the more serious comments, encouraging DSD to talk openly but not make things up.

So she is telling you stuff that you know happened, but had agreed with xh not to tell her about? Is that right? She obviously found this out some how and the only explanation is that he has told her.

I would be very careful about deciding a 4 year old can be manipulative and that this is what is happening. I suppose some can, but it's not my experience and I would believe a 4 year old before I believed an x with ea tendencies.

If it's stuff that only you and him would know about, then either he's told her, or he's told someone else and they've told her, or she's overheard him speaking about it.

Is the above and the things that have happened at his house putting her in danger in any way? Or is it just stuff that is different from the way you would operate?

I think my 4 year old is capable of presenting a world which suits him best but I'd really hesitate to say it was manipulative. It does sound like your DD is repeating things she must've heard - and any factual slipperiness from my 4 yr old is very, very clear, and has a clear intention iyswim. Mentioning things in a by-the-way style, or things which he doesn't expect a reaction or action from would be a level of subtely he just couldn't muster.

I think an EA ex way less trustworthy than a 4 yr old.

From my fairly extensive experience of small children (and also casting my mind back to when I was one!) OutsSelf is right on the mark.

Some four-year-olds are wonderfully inventive, but they have to get the building blocks from somewhere, if you see what I mean. If, for example, your child told you a dinosaur came to tea you would know that was unlikely, but she has heard from somewhere about dinosaurs and that visitors come for tea; quite possibly she had seen a book about that very thing happening. If what you're talking about is, for example, your DD saying they went out with Auntie Jean and she and daddy were holding hands and Auntie Jean called her "moppet" and bought her a toy, it's far more likely that something pretty similar to that really happened, because where would she get it from otherwise? It's very specific and not a thing she'd have a reason to make up.

Does your ex have form for telling the truth?

YY to Outsself. Although DS used to tell me all kinds of implausible things like that XP and new GF had dropped GF's DD on the floor and stamped on her when she was naughty I don't think I'd give them any parenting awards but they weren't that bad.

However when you say specific things you had agreed wouldn't be mentioned to her, and XP is denying it, that's ringing alarm bells a little. (Although could it be that he's just really oblivious to how much 4 year olds listen into adult conversation, and he's talking about these things around her?)

How are you confronting him? In person or over text etc? I think you can tell a lot by his reaction - if he's covering his tracks then he'll be flustered or defensive, but if it's totally new to him he'll probably be surprised or shocked. But much harder to judge by text.

If she's coming out with stuff you both agreed she wouldn't be told, and you haven't told her, then he has, hasn't he?

So that's the bottom line - he's lying and going back on your co-parenting agreements.

So I'd work from there, not the possibility that she's manipulating the situation. Do you trust him to keep her safe? What is she coming out with - is it stuff that's inappropriate for her to know? What else is she saying happened at his house, and does it sound believable for him - or is it clearly fantastical?

The issue is whether she is safe and well cared for with him. If what she is saying throws that into doubt, then I'd investigate further.

Thank you everyone for your helpful replies.

I really hate the idea that she might be inventing stuff for any manipulative reason. The thing that we agreed not to tell her was that he was considering moving to be closer to where we live (he's currently 3.5 hours away). I insisted she mustn't hear a murmur of his plan until he had job and accommodation 100% in place (because I doubted his commitment and didn't want her getting her hopes up). He agreed and understood but she came back home from her very next contact saying that Daddy's moving back. Never in the preceeding year from when he moved away had she ever said that before, so if it was said due to wishful thinking it's a mighty coincidence. Plus it's not the sort of thing she'd have overheard. Needless to say he's decided not to move back anyway now so I was right about not wanting to get her hopes up.

The other things are just incidental things that come up in conversation about things that have happened, such as incidents at mealtimes, things that he says she's asked for but she insists he's instigated. It's nothing that puts her in harm's way, but neither is it anything that I would do at home. (Sorry, so many 'things' but I'm tired and not able to think coherently! )

She's got a great imagination when it comes to drawing and writing, but she's not one to make up stories about things that have happened. And in this case it's all really boring stuff; things that could have genuinely happened. I don't know why either of them would make any of it up to be honest.

Bertie confronting him has been a combination of phone (total innocence re the move) and email/text.

If your gut instinct says that she isn't making it up then it's probably true. But if it's low level stuff that's just differing parenting styles, then let it go anyway. It doesn't do any good to get into arguments over those things or ask about them really, it just riles things up and ultimately it's one of the crap things about being separated. Just think of the trade off - she doesn't have to deal with him at all most of the time.

Don't worry, I'm not arguing with him about it and won't bother. I just don't get it. I only queried the latest one with him because it involved her not having eaten any lunch so I just asked innocently if there had been an incident because she'd got her knickers in a twist about something. Knowing my delightful ex as I do, I know there's no point in rattling his cage.