How much should you tell the children? Trigger warning

[YKNOTC]

I started a thread the other day about what XH did to me. I've decided to get help, even though it's long past, and am on the waiting list for counselling at long last.

But something was mentioned on the thread that I wanted to discuss further.

Ds1 is nearly an adult and he remembers what XH was like. He's had periods of reducing contact, but is currently seeing him.

I don't want any of XH's attitudes towards women rubbing off on either ds or his much younger siblings.

Ds asked me shortly before resuming contact after he reduced it when XH called him a liar, whether XH had ever punched me. He said he could never forgive that. I answered honestly that XH had never punched me, but that didn't mean it wasn't an abusive relationship. He was relieved I think.

But he did worse than punch me (forgetting all the punching of walls next to me, restraining me, etc.). He sexually assaulted me, and raped me. As I said on the other thread I'm only just coming to terms with this and it's not easy.

It was suggested that I be honest with ds. This had never occurred to me. My instincts say not to, that it would hurt him and it's preferable that it just hurts me. And if I told him then would I tell the others when they grew up? They don't remember what things were like. They have only positive memories of him.

So I thought I would ask for advice here. I feel I shouldn't tell any of them ever, but am I doing them a disservice by giving them a crappy role model and not explaining why he's so crappy? I don't have a choice with regards to him having contact, Cafcass didn't care what he'd done to me or to ds.

All advice welcome, please be gentle though. I'm a little fragile about all this. Thanks. My priority is doing the right thing for the dcs, not for me.

As with younger children - make sure it is 'age appropriate' and 'time-sensitive'.

Your son asked a specific question: you answered honestly and truthfully.

But there might be a time when DS asks "Did Dad hurt you in another way?"

On the other hand, you should be a parental mentor to him. Talk about boundaries. "No means No". Talk about RESPECT - and give him clear examples of what this means. But be prepared that this type of discussion may open you up to questions.

You can invite him to bring girlfriends to the house (not necessarily overnight). Go into the kitchen and do other things. Feel joy when your DS speaks to his GF with respect (and she responds equally).

Thanks, sad widow, I do have long discussions with him about consent and treating women as people not as aliens.

I just don't know if it would ultimately do more harm than good to be honest, even if asked directly.

Hi OP, I read your other thread and was quite surprised that some people suggested telling your DC's the extent of the abuse; I thought that would be seen as over sharing with children and thought of as inappropriate.
I can't remember if I wrote on your other thread but my mum told me when I was about 11 that my dad raped her and that my oldest brother was a product of the rape, and she only got married because she was pregnant because of the rape. Even though I couldn't stand my dad and was under no illusions that he was a nice guy, I was traumatized by my mum sharing this with me (and wanting to discuss it at numerous other times).
Tbh I would rather have been told a romantic lie. I've always felt ashamed of this history, I have NEVER told anyone in RL, and it has made me feel like the product of something disgusting.
This is just my POV but personally I think you can steer your children towards being good people without telling them the truth if what he did to you. I wish my mum had told a counsellor and not me.

How old is he?

He is 17.

Charley, I'm so sorry you went through that. I can't imagine any 11 year old would have the emotional maturity to deal with something like that. You have absolutely nothing to be ashamed of, your mother must have been in a lot of pain to confide in you like that, but she really really shouldn't have

Thanks YKNOT,
I hope you get some more responses and views. Your situation is different obviously, as I think the abuse probably started later and you left your ex (my mum left but then went back, then he left when all the kids grown up), but I still feel it's not necessary to share everything about this situation with your DS.

I don't know what you tell your ds, except gentle age appropriate chats about how to treat people. I wouldn't tell my ds, not outright.

However, you can ensure, as I do with mine, that they have decent male role models who know they are role models - such as sports instructors, teachers - and ensure they know you are expecting them to be male role models.

Books about good guys, all that stuff is helpful.

I don't think it is necessarily beneficial to tell children the full details. I haven't told mine of any of the abuse I was subjected to by their father. It's been painful for me to see them adore their father and view me as the bad one....but....as the years are passing, I see my youngest questioning some of dad's views, and there is a definite shift in dynamics within our relationship. It has been bloody difficult to keep quiet, and at times has caused me soul wrenching grief when all I've wanted to do is scream at them about some of the more awful things he did. But I'm glad i didn't. they will work it out on their own and will hopefully have more respect for me as a result.

Charley, that must have been really hard and incredibly confusing, I hope you were able to not model your relationships on the one you saw growing up

Lavender, I am lucky that I have excellent role models in my brothers and my new dh. Ds has even said that seeing dh with the younger two and comparing that to XH, has made him see what a terrible father XH is :( poor boy.

T3 I think that's where i am. My biggest worry still lies in the future, when there are graduations or weddings or other family events where he will be there. I get huge amount of anxiety and panic attacks, which I currently manage by never ever seeing him and having minimal email contact that goes through a third person. I have no direct contact whatsoever.

I find this hard too, because I did see him for the first couple of years after we split. It all changed when one day, during drop off (which dh was always present at) he asked to speak in private and then grabbed me and tried to hug me.

I went into a sort of shock. Since then the idea of being anywhere near him fills me with revulsion. I know that at something like a wedding, he would use me not wanting to make a public fuss, to force some kind of contact on me.

The idea of being in a room with my rapist and people thinking badly of me for freaking out, when he seems oh-so-reasonable terrifies me.

I know these are future worries, and they may never come to pass, but people knowing would protect me and they would understand.

I think I just need to try to make some plans. For family weddings I can make sure all my side know the truth and they can keep him away. But even then, I would only trust dh and SIL to put protecting me before being polite.

I must sound really daft worrying about things that haven't happened yet :) I'm not crazy, I promise (just the sort of thing a crazy person would say).

YNKOTC I can't imagine how awful this is for you. There is no easy answer to this but I think you are amazing to have come out of that situation & have been able to cope with maintaining your DCs' relationship with their dad when it's impacted & affected you so much.

I do think that your worries/fears about future events shouldn't be minimised or dismissed as less important or not something to consider when these things come round. I don't think you need to be graphic or detailed but you need to be able to say that how your ex treated you has a real & significant impact on you, even now, and without going into details, you need to be able to allow yourself the space & support to cope with these events. Whatever it takes to get you through these, you need your DC to accept & allow you to cope in whatever way you can, if they want you there as well as him. It is not your fault that such events will be difficult or potentially traumatic, and you should not have to endure high stress/anxiety so that others can maintain an illusion of what they might see as a decent man when he's anything but.

It's absolutely fine to give refuse any details, but be clear on how you are affected by being in such close proximity to your ex & why that needs to be accepted & respected by your DC when planning major life events.

I hope you find a way to put that across so that you do not have to endure just to keep others happy. That's an unfair expectation to place on you, even if it is your DC. I understand that feeling of wanting to give them support & happy memories at such events, but in your DCs' shoes, I'd not want that to be at the expense of your wellbeing.

I dont think you are daft for worrying about future possible scenarios. In my book it is called preparation and anticipating what may happen and how you can protect yourself/deal with it safely.
It is difficult to know what to tell the children. I have told mine (tried to be age apropriate but had to be specific about force when ex started telling lies) but not about the sexual abuse. Mine are younger, but for me that is something I will never share unless itis brought up when they are adults. My oldest is having sex ed at school now, and when we have talked a bit I stress the importance of never doing anything that both dont Agree to and never to push or nag someone into things.
My ex also recently tried to hug and touch me, despite me having repeatedly stated verbally and in emails that it was not acceptable. It made me ill and very anxious because it shows that there is zero respect for me/my boundaries which again goes to show that the abusive mindset has not gone away.
So no, you dont sound crazy at all!

Thanks Tension, I think it's something I'm going to talk to the Rape Crisis counsellor about. It must come up quite often :(

I think the hug was the trigger for absolutely those reasons, turbo. It was showing that he will never respect my boundaries and will expect me to allow him to do what he wants.

He probably didn't expect me to threaten him with the police, and for dh to take over drop offs and tell him very firmly that if he ever touches me again for any reason then the police will be called and will be told everything.

He obviously then sent messages to me saying that dh had physically threatened him and he was considering prosecution (he didn't. I was inside with the window open, listening).

But he knows I wouldn't do anything in front of the dcs. So that's why big events where they are present worry me. But if it came to it, once they're adults and they asked why I couldn't cope, then I suppose that would be the time when maybe I would be honest. Simply because I wouldn't want them to think less of me :(

Whilst they are children, I can avoid things where he will be there. I worry that one day there will be a school event or something, but I do have a good relationship with the school and feel I could at least speak to someone there about it. He hasn't shown an interest before.

The discussions about consent are so important. I try to teach the younger two that no one ever has a right to touch you if you say no. So if they're playing tickling games and things, I respect their right to stop when they want to stop. But I know XH doesn't respect any of their boundaries, I just have to make sure it is my message that wins out.

Is anyone around?

DS has just spent the week with XH. He's due back today but has just messaged me asking to stay longer.

I'm really upset.

I told ds I am upset.

He's accused me of trying to guilt trip him :(

I can't explain why it upsets me so much. I shouldn't be so upset :(

I start rape crisis counselling in a fortnight.

DS is annoyed with me for "guilt tripping" and I'm now back in bed crying my eyes out and wishing that he could know why this hurts so much.

Please talk to me :(

Even if it's to tell me I'm getting it all wrong :(

Oh dear. and for you.

I am guessing you feel rejected because your DS is enjoying the company of someone who has abused you terribly? And you're conflating this with not feeling able to tell DS about all the things that went on?

No doubt your ex is pulling the disney dad act, and it's hard for any kid or young adult to see through that.

Are your other kids there with him as well? (I think I remember you have two younger ones?)

They are with him too, but coming home as planned this afternoon. I don't relax until they're home.

You're spot on with all of that. I feel rejected and hurt.

I can't tell how much I'm overreacting. I'm almost certainly suffering from some kind of ptsd. I don't want to burden DS with my emotions but i want him to know his actions have an effect :(

Thank you for replying

Maybe you could tell DS that although he didn't hit you he did other physical harm and leave it up to him if he wants to know more

Petals, thanks for responding. I think part of my fear would be how I wouldfeel if I told ds everyhing and he still wanted to see xh.

I don't want my hurt to get in the way of their relationship, but I don't want my hurt stomped all over either :(

I can't win. I get to carry wll this pain, XH gets to walk away and slag me off to the world.

I would probably say something to your DS along the lines of "I didn't mean to guilt trip you, but I had been looking forward to spending time with you this week and it was disappointing for me that you chose to stay at your dad's. I would prefer in future that you don't change your plans at the last minute, as it isn't fair to me."

At the moment, given what your DS currently knows it's not unreasonable for him to ask to spend more time with his dad, and as I said it's certainly understandable if his dad's pulling the "best dad ever" game. Of course this makes you feel horribly rejected, but your DS does not know the full picture and you cannot expect him to walk away from his dad until he does. Also the age he is at I think he probably feels a need for a male bonding relationship.

I think going into further detail with DS can perhaps wait until you've got counselling support. I know I was one of those on your original thread who was in favour of telling your DS, but you seem very fragile right now and I think you should park that whole idea until you feel stronger in yourself and can work through possible responses with a counsellor/therapist.

Can you start planning some nice things to do just with the younger ones for next week? Just to take your mind off things and re-focus.

Hiya YK, I responded to your thread when you originally posted with my story. I'm sorry you are so upset but I don't think you should tell DS why you feel it is.
Gut feeling really. My DB doesn't know the things my mum told me. I really think he would have been even more damaged by the revelation than he already is.
You need to talk to someone about this but not your DS. How long ago did you split from you exH?
DS isn't doing anything to hurt you; he's just having a good time with his dad. His experience of him is different to yours. I think you have to try and separate his present from your past. Counseling definitely if you're not currently having it.
Sorry if this sounds clunky I'm not having a very good day myself.
Here are some flowers and some for later.

I understand exactly how you feel. My children were with their dad today and he plays the perfect Disney dad. All presents and treats. But after what he has put me through how can he smile or look himself in the mirror.

It hurts so much when your children are with the perpetrator and we're still trying to deal with the emotions of what they have done to us.

I have also struggled with what to tell my eldest. She believes everything he tells her and I have not told her half of what he's done.

It doesn't matter how long ago you split from this man, if his actions are still hurting you you need to get help.

I've found the Rising Sun very helpful. They offer one to one counselling and it's free. Have you tried contacting them or joining a Freedom programme.

In my darkest moments I have also rang the Samaritans. Don't be frightened to reach out.

Don't think you are on your own. There are lots of us here.

YK my heart absolutely goes out to you.

My dd is 17. In January 2014 she reported my ex to the police for historical abuse against her. To strengthen her evidence I agreed to make a statement too and in doing so I disclosed details of the sexual assaults that had formed a large part of the abuse throughout our marriage. The police could not prosecute him for anything dd alleged as it was beyond the statute limit but investigated my allegations. She badgered me and badgered me to know why her allegations 'didn't matter' but mine did so I told her. She was devastated. She had had no contact with him for three months at that point and continued not to for a further six.

Fast forward to now. Two weeks ago dd moved in with her dad full time. I know you can imagine my feelings because I can so easily empathise with yours.

He is in Disney dad+ mode. He sponsors her while she is not working nor in college. He has bought her a puppy. He let's her boyfriend stay whenever she wants. He knows how fragile his hold really is over her and is desperately splashing cash to keep her.

I know this to be true and I know that her behaviour has been so appalling recently that her three younger siblings are all happier without her currently even though they miss her. Yet I still feel so rejected. I still feel as though she doesn't care about what he did to me even though I've tried all along to make it all about their relationship with their dad, regardless of how he's treated me.

So, no advice from me. Just plenty of empathy.