A father question - challenged by my mother talk ask Mumsnet

[AnguaVonUberwald]

I don't have a relationship with my biological father at all currently. (My decision).
The reasons are long and complex but can kind of be summed up as "He has never in his whole life thought about me. How things affect me, what I want or even who I am."

His whole interest in me is proving that I am totally messed up because that proves that when my mother left him, she messed up everyone's lives. (This was 27 years ago).

Examples are: I told him I was going to have cognitive therapy and he told me that this would completely mess me up, and ruin my life. Months later, when I told him I was now OK and didn't need therapy anymore he sent me loads of literature on how good cognitive therapy is!! (Oh yes, and lots of stuff about people self harming!!! WTF?)
He recently sent me a three page letter the point of which was to tell me that he thought it might help me to know that not ALL of the problems in my childhood were my fault!
He is totally sexist (has real issues with his mother) - when I was a child I was told "when you grow up you and your brother and I can have a little house in the country and you can look after it everyday while your brother and I go for walks" - and when I objected to this I was asked "don't you love your daddy?"
Or "I think your brother needs a present, don't you. You don't mind if you don't have one, do you."
He constantly complains that the reason I don't talk to him is that my mother poisoned me against him - nothing to do with his behaviour.

Anyway. I am now engaged to be married and my mother has just said to me that she thinks now I am engaged I should get back in touch with him as he will treat me completely differently - be totally careful about what he says, treat me with much more respect. Not try and prove my mother ruined my life by leaving him.

Because apparently in his universe, you can say things to single women but married women must be treated with respect as they have a man!!!!!

I just can't get my head around this, I was not "a single woman" I am his daughter. Can anyone make any sense of this? - My mother things it makes some kind of sense and challenged me to ask the question on mumsnet

if he has never acknowledged that you should be treated fairly and with respect ever..then i don't see how this will make any difference.

I would suggest that he has no concept of respect & unconditional love.

Would you like him to treat you better because you are getting married...or beacuse you are a wonderful, beautiful, delightful woman..who is his daughter......

it is not your mothers' decision...getting back in touch to make her happy is not neccesarily the best thing for your happiness....

there...my two pennies worth!

and many congratulations on your forthcoming wedding...!

But do you want to be part of that universe? I wouldn't - and it sounds as though you've managed very well without it.

I think your priority has to be having a fantastic rel with your dh-to-be (and, in doing so, proving that your father hasn't ruined your life in the slightest).

And while I'm at it, why on earth does your mother want you to get back in touch with him, 27 years after she left him? I think you're making all the right decisions, and everyone else is at least fairly mad!

Thankyou Lulumama.

Its the concept that I am worthy of respect because I have met a man, but up till then anything goes!!

Like you say, no respect because I am his daughter, or even a person. but because I managed to get a man!!!

Dear AVU,

Not knowing your entire history will make it pointless to give advise. I can only tell you my first and gut reaction.

I would not be inclined to patch things up (so to speak) if I do not feel ready, regardless of getting married. You have made things better for yourself by going to therapy and living your life without him, that says to me you can survive without him, you do not have to subject yourself to disappointment again.

However,

If you feel that you want to get in touch with him again and start up a new relationship then do so. IMO marriage is not a reason to try and patch up a relationship that has never existed. Marriage should be a sacred event in your life and should be done with only people that support you unconditionally.

HTH

Thank you twocats, I feel like I have ended up in a parallel universe. Its not an easy decision to cut all contact with a parent, and one I still struggle with sometimes.

But this, as a reason for getting back in touch!! It just baffles me!

it is still always shocking that these outdated and frankly repugnant notions still exist......but it's good that you are able to see them for what they are ...and not as a reflection on you...

concentrate on the future..which will be wonderful..not the past, which was anything but!

Your father belongs in a museum along with all the other dinosaurs and relics from a bygone age. We've moved on from the dark days where a woman was only worth half a man and was nothing without one (unless you follow Sharia law that is).

Your mother probably has some nostalgic ideal in her head where she's the proud mother of the bride and your father walks you down the aisle and gives you away on your wedding day. Unfortunately, any prick can make a baby but it takes a real man to be a father, and it isn't a job where you can pick and choose the bits you like and discard the not so nice bits when the going gets tough.

Congratulations on your engagement by the way!

Mum2Funkeydude. I do agree with you and frankly I think he is incapable of change, which means that any relationship with him will just tread the same old ground. And no, I am not ready to do it.

Its just: what a reason for suggesting that it will be ok now. that i met a man, so he will treat me differently!

Its a shocking suggestion, and the thought that it might be true is even more shocking.

I do think that my mother wants me to get back in touch with him out of at least some guilt - as she was the one who left him!

My mum definately treated me differently and with a lot more respect when I was married. After dh died she has reverted to her old ways . If it wasn't for my siblings and dd to some extent, I wouldn't see her tbh.

Thankyou ginmummy and lulumama.

Thats hard DelGhoul. Does she have any concept that she is doing it, or does she just think that is how the world works?

DelGhoul - I meant thats hard - as in thats "difficult" - just wanted to be clear

I had very little relationship with my biological father for years because of various things through my childhood and early adulthood which caused resentment

it changed because of a number of things - it did it kind of slowly and organically - I think his lovely new partner, me having children, and his mellowing personally were all factors. It just ended up to be the right time to let the past mistakes go and build a new relationship.

if it's not right for you personally at the moment, don't do it. It would only piss you off. don't do it for such a mad-ass reason. In my experience my mother would say things about my dad which may have been true when she was with him, but aren't necessarily quite so true now - people change a lot over time and she only knew him when he was younger.

it's your decision and only when he starts seeming like a guy you could get to like, even a bit, should you be looking to start afresh with him

Oh yes, she definately knows. She's been like it with most of us but me definately the worst.

I can't see anything positive that this man could add to your life tbh.

And when and if you have a dd, will you have to stand back and watch him treat her with contempt until she finds a man? Not an appealing prospect, imo.

That's really unusual behaviour on your Father's part. He should love you unconditionally and why on earth he would view you different as a married woman is an alien concept to me.I didn't see my father from the age of 4 - 29(which was my mothers choice). I got in touch with him at the age of 29 and felt no bond at all. I was similar to him in several ways but I found it odd that he expected me to say ' I love you Daddy',when I have never had a Daddy my whole life. He refused to give me any maintenance from 0-4 and there were times my Mother couldn't even afford a pair of shoes for me(the benefits system was not geared up to help single Mom's in the 70's). My Mum worked hard to raise me alone, she was my Mummy and Daddy. I met him with an open mind, only discover first hand, that he was a bitter twisted old man that was best out of my life. I thought that twentysomething years would have changed him but they hadn't. All he could moan about was how no woman would want him now as his 'looks' had gone and would never give a thought to all the hearts he had broken from his nasty womanizing ways. You are an adult now and if you choose not to have your Dad in your life because he upsets you then that is your choice. Believe me I am very easy going and I give everyone several chances but when I find myself at a point where the person in question hurts me and continues to behave in a way they know I don't like then that is it as far as I am concerned. I did not need my Dad to walk me up the aisle, he never walked to school when he had the chance.
I guess what I am saying is there comes a time when you have to put a permanent stop to things. There is only so many times you can set yourself up for disappointment.
Good Luck.

Kikki, its interesting isn't it that people have such a high expectation that because you are related to someone you "must" feel certain things about them.

I don't really tell people in RL about the fact that I have no contact with my real father as they seem to absolutly belive that I love him it will all work out ok in the end.

I firmly belive that people can give up their rights to be fathers. And whenever I feel too guilty I remember that this is all because of how he behaved and that he hasn't changed at all. And like various people have pointed out, if this is why he has changed why do i want that?

BTW I have asked my mother to walk me down the isle. Our relationship isn't always easy but she loves me and has always tried to do what she thinks is right!

Angua the thing about relating to your father, is that for you, he hasn't functioned as a father, so how on earth could you possibly feel the conventional feelings one is supposed to feel for that relative?

I believe that we become mothers and fathers for our children, not because of who we are but because of what we do. And your Dad hasn't done being a father. So emotionally, he's not one and you're not going to be able to conjure up daughterly feelings about him. Those feelings arise from years of fathers being fathers, if they don't put that investment in, they don't get the returns, not because someone's withholding them, but because they're just not there. I don't think you need to feel any ambiguity about this, although it sounds like you've pretty much sorted it out in your head anyway.

You are worthy of respect because you are a human being, because you are his daughter, because he helped to bring you into this world.

Getting marries makes you no more worthy, nothing should, you should be THAT worthy in the 1st place.

The more I think about it the more shocked I am, both that my mother said this and thinks that therefore I should get back in touch with him, and at the idea that it could possibly be true.

personally I don't ever think he will ever treat me with any kind of respect or thought and the only issue I have left is that sometimes I feel guilty for cutting all contact.

But I don't feel like I am missing anything positive through it.

AnguaVonUberwald, I would be dubious of making that step to get in touch again. My father and I have had an off/off relationships for over 25 years. Several times I have cut him out of my life because of his terrible selfish behaviour.

On my DP's suggestion, I contacted him again when I was pregnant with DS2 (3 years ago), I have seen him twice since then and he has never made the effort to see dd (who was 1 last week) despite me sending photos etc. He's been too busy!! (FFS)

So I have just left myself open to getting hurt all over again, this man will never be able to give me the fatherly relationship I want/need. So will have to realise that and move on.

Thank you redtartanlass and fiofio. I really don't want to talk to him again and see nothing positive in it for me at all (I would do it if it was neutral for me but its activly negative).

Its just so easy to start thinking "I should want to try again".

My mother and my stepfather both seem to be pushing it at the moment and I get comments like "oh we didn't realise this was such a difficult issue for you". Well FFS - its not going to be simple and unemotional is it?

My step father actually started going on and on in a "jokey" way the other day about why i couldn't send my biological father a birthday card and when I got upset and asked him to stop apparently "The devil got into him and he just couldn't resist carrying on!"

but why do your mother and stepfather want you to keep in contact with him? I think it might be worth asking them that next time they carry on about it.

For what it's worth - at least from my experience of divorced parents - it's about making them feel better about themselves. If you're in contact with your dad, everything's OK and they don't have to feel bad about the divorce and its effect on other people. But that's their problem, not yours.

I think you seem to be really strong and together about this whole situation, in comparison with, as I said in my earlier post, some quite mad people around you. Hold on to the sanity - and weddings do sometimes make people want to 'sort things out' (at my wedding earlier this year, my father wanted to have an all family together meal with my mum for the first time in almost 30 years. I couldn't imagine anything less fun, or more stressful and told him as much). But it will settle down again I'm sure.

And I think your mother walking you down the aisle sounds great - my friend did this, and her mum gave the speech as well, and it was a lovely day.