I know it's better left in the past but.... "Closure"

[PonderingOnThis]

Hi all. I've name changed here but I have spoken about some of this before and been in correspondence with a couple of MNners who have been through similar. If you recognise me, please don't call me out on my real username. I'm a longtime poster.

Apologies in advance for length. It's a long story!!!

So, I'm 35 and married with two children, eldest is 2 and little one is 6 months. Very happy, lovely husband. Good job as a solicitor that I trained long and hard for and that I do part time (on ML at the moment).

When I was 14 I began (or to be more accurate, I was roped into) a sexual relationship with one of my teachers. He was 15 years older than me and married. Claimed to love me and that what we had was a real fairytale love-of-your-life thing. Asked me to marry him when I was 15 and promised he would "make it good"... Whatever happened long term he would come back for me and marry me.

What followed was a long and tempestuous eight years (until I was 22) with him eventually separating from his wife and living with me when I was at uni. I loved him very much but looking back, he was very very abusive. Used to mess with my head and was sexually somewhat unusual. We had a very passionate and intense sexual connection, but he enjoyed cross dressing and brought this into our sex life early on. He was a bit of a porn addict too (pre internet so had a vast collection- like a cupboard under the stairs- of videos and magazines.) and exposed me to hardcore porn when I was 14 so I grew up around this thinking it was normal. Only in adulthood do I get how weird that was.

It ended badly. Very badly. One day he jus disappeared. Didn't come back to the flat where he had been living with me and no one seemed to know where he had gone (work etc). It seems (or so he said) that he had had some kind of realisation that what he did was so bad that he had to "let me go". I think he had a nervous breakdown. He went to live with his mother in Wales for a while (we were in East Anglia) and then suddenly reconciled with his wife (or was it suddenly? Always kind of suspected he might have been keeping her on the back burner. Never found out). She had been my teacher too but forgave him for his "indiscretions" and she invited me round her house to tell me that they were "working on" their marriage and basically that I should back off and never contact him (or her) again and that if I kicked up a fuss I would "pay the consequences" and she would make sure my name was mud locally.

I lost my shit quite badly. Was in the middle of some really important law exams and more or less dropped out (luckily had a very understanding uni and it did all get sorted in the end). My parents never knew the extent of it and thought ( Because that's what we told them) that we had met one another randomly on a night out when I was 20 and got together. They had (and still have) no idea that there had been 6 years before that. It seemed incredibly important to shied them from the truth, they were and are very good parents and they didn't fail me. He was just an evil and manipulative wanker who convinced me to lie to them.

I went to the police but it was 2002, pre the law change that made it illegal to shag your pupils, and they looked into and said that basically it was my word against his. They questioned him and he said he had never had sex with me until I was 20. There was nothing they could do. He did tell me he would leave teaching. I went massively off the rails. Never heard from him again.

When I was 26 and just back on an evenish keel after a couple of years of hard drinking, drugs, partying and casual sex- working very hard in my job and living with a boyfriend from work- I bumped into him by chance. He tried to ignore me (in a pub) but I made him talk to me. He was clearly very embarrassed. He was with a friend from work and through the course of the conversion it turned out he was teaching but had moved districts. I was livid (although didn't show him that!) what followed was a period of depression and anxiety that I think was a delayed nervous breakdown. I had a lot of therapy and CBT and was put on medication. This time I felt like I dealt with it all and emerged a couple of years later feeling I had confronted the past and my demons. The next year I met my DH and for the first time (at 29!) felt I had fallen in love properly and had a proper happy life. DS1 was born two years later and I can honestly say my life is very happy. DH is lovely and we have a happy and contented life. We have a good and happy sex life, lovely kids and he's a kind and good man. I'm really happy.

Except for the anger. It's not always there but when it is, I could kill him. I look back and can't believe what he did to me. I hate him. For all my therapy and CBT I just want to batter him and it doesn't seem to get less as the years go on. Coupled with the fact- and I am deeply ashamed of this- that I still feel like he exists at the centre of my sexuality. I regularly- during the angry periods- have vivid (and not unpleasant) sex dreams about him. And then I wake up angry and ashamed that he still has that "over me".

I've now reached the point where I think that the only way of dealing with it that I haven't explored is to tell him what he did to me and make him aware of the havoc he reaped. But my sane side says leave it in the past, no good can come of tracking him down and telling him he's a bastard. But what's the alternative? Live with this anger forever? Will it be forever? Is it because he just left? Is it a lack of closure?

I've been dealing with this man being in my head for more than half my life. I'm tired. I want him to leave. Is finding him the only way to exorcise him?

Sorry again for length. If you got to the end of this then Thanks. any advice or insight happily taken on board.

Mm. I dealt with something similar by urinating on a grave and writing Lk 17.2 on it. While you're waiting, I would suggest therapy.

OP, I don't know if it would help or not. I'd like to confront my first serious boyfriend (also a ridiculous age gap) about lots of things that were so wrong with hindsight. I hate him, and what he did to me. As it is, he probably hates me too, and on paper it looks like I behaved very badly when I ended the relationship. In reality, I got out the only way that I (eventually) could.

Firstly, does DH know most of this? Having his support is only beneficial.

You could write a letter to him and burn it to seek closure but if in your heart of hearts you feel a face to face situation is what you need, do it. It's obviously haunting you but be prepared that the outcome may not be what you want/expect. Having said that it could well be. If you felt that you wanted to go to the police before then that may still be an option, what with similar stories in the news over the last few years, these things are being handled differently.
Even though he was older and took advantage of you, you are an adult now, a strong mother, probably older than he was when you first started the relationship. If you do meet him you need to remember this and be in control x

Thanks all who've replied so far. DH knows absolutely everything apart from the sex dreams (for obvious reasons) and about the extent of my ongoing anger. He is very supportive and works in a position of trust with troubled kids so is in a good position to supporte regarding how terrible it was.

Have thought about a letter, have considered just turning up on his doorstep (know where he lives, ironically not far from me at all) but both ideas give me knots in my stomach. I know all the things I want to say but think he would just deny it all. He was so convincing with the police back then even I wondered if it was as bad as it seemed in my head iyswim.

Does anyone know what kind of evidence the police might want? Because I've got nothing!

I wonder if there is anyone you could speak to about the likely consequences of talking to him.

He might get a kick out of it.
Whether he does or does not, you might still be angry.

Otoh it is worrying he still teaches.
And he probably still has a world of porn stashed.

Is the legal route definitely out? I.e. getting the police to either look again at what he did to you, which if it started at 15 was child sexual abuse even before the law changed. Or them examining his porn habits. I'd put money on him having illegal porn.

It might be that what you are lacking is vindication. No one has admitted what he did was wrong. Somehow I doubt he will. Or his wife who by taking him back implied what he did was ok (although she is probably a victim of his too).

Some legal redress might make more inroads on your anger. An acknowledgement he was wrong. Possibly mow post Saville the police attitude would be different?

I don't know the answer but have a similar milder version of your story with a manipulative older man who nearly destroyed my younger self. like you I still feel influenced by him sexually, it's very hard to explain.
I don't know the answer.
I have felt like I wanted to kill him.
he was once mentioned on MN as a recommendation for his professional services and I wanted to say DO NOT GO NEAR THIS MAN .
I'm in my 50s and it does get better

I think you've hit the nail on the head mink- no one official has ever said he was wrong!!! And whilst I do feel sorry for his wife with my sensible hat on, I'm so fucking angry with her too. She helped him get another job in teaching, it later turned out, and I wanted to go round and punch her. I couldn't believe she was more or less supplying him with a new group of girls!!!!

I suspect he has dodgy porn too- just from a few things that were said at the time and the fact that his favourite stuff was of young looking girls even if they were in fact 18. Over the years I've often thought one day I will hear he's been arrested for indecent images of children or something equally awful.

At the time police said, sex with a 15 year old is bad and yes there is a penalty but basically it's up to you to prove it. Which I couldn't. It was all anecdotal, ie I've had the same best friend since I was a kid so she knew it was happening. And he had mentioned that he had "feelings" for me to a friend and colleague. But neither is evidence it's just some conversations that might have happened.

Shirley, you give me hope that it gets better!!

The chances are he would ignore you, call you a liar or blame you and the anger you feel now, would only be amplified.

The climate is now very different to what it was in 2002, have you considered going back to the police? Unfortunately, you may not have been the only one who was abused by this vile human, especially if he's still in teaching.

He can not provide you with closure because closure is an internal dialogue. For me, closure was accepting and forgiving the person I was back then (not that I forgive him or that I deserved his treatment of me), which freed me to be the person I am now. Fixating on my Ex and his appalling behaviour would've trapped me and DD in the past.

Be kind to yourself.

Yes, I do think he would probably call me a liar. That just makes me angrier! Lol.

I do understand the idea of closure being an internal dialogue. However I'm not angry with myself or myself back then.... I'm angry with him. So how do I stop being angry with him without any kind of apology or vindication? I just can't see a way round it.

I remember a previous thread OP of yours OP, and what an arsehole this man was/is.

My personal experience of confronting people with the past is that it brings no closure and just opens up new avenues of stress and anger.

He will never admit what he did, and he probably doesn't care. He certainly won't apologise and even if he did, I don't think it would stop the anger.

You say you had CBT, I wonder if some in depth psychodynamic psychotherapy would help. Somewhere where you can express all the anger and make terms with it in a safe environment. It feels like you haven't exorcised it completely yet.

The other that might help might be to write it out. I don't just mean a letter to him, which would be useful to write but not to send, but also writing down all the experiences from start to finish.

I have often wondered what it takes for the police to look into someone's online activities.
He works with young people.
He most likely has illegal porn.

If you told the police he had illegal porn in the past is that enough evidence for them to investigate his electronic equipment?

Does anyone know how these investigations get kicked off normally, other than them being caught online or by their hard disk being seen?

I don't think confronting him will help. But if he were investigated that might at least put your mind at rest as to his current activities.

Op how would you feel about trying the police again? Were they too useless last time for you to go through it again? Or do you think it might help now the climate has changed.

And did you specifically mention the porn last time? Both owning it AND showing it to you if you were under 16, are offences.

Plus the penalty, in terms of prison time might not be much, but it would stop him working with kids and put him on the register if convicted. And that would serve him right. (Although not trying to push you down that routr- court might not be great for you) but if were to get done on an images issue you would not need to go to court and the police can bring the prosecution based on hard evidence.

OP, my understanding is that the police attitude to grooming/underage sex and especially underage sex with a person you have a duty of care over has changed significantly over the years. I would recommend you talk to the police and make a formal complaint. This they have to look into. You may have more "proof" than you realise. Did any of your school friends know? Did you ever stay anywhere (hotels etc). You will have a host of memories of times/places that will cast doubt on his denial.
I am sure (as a solicitor) you will know that trained police officers will be able to tell you are telling the truth, when you consistently retell a story will a lot of complex details. Even ultimately if it is "your word against his", that's doesn't necessarily mean no prosecution will follow. As has been seen recently with the high profile sex cases against former celeb's.

PS - plus your therapists could also be used to verify your account or at least act as a character witness. There is probably more proof than you realise. Good Luck

It's hard as a huge part of me wants to see him brought to some kind of justice but a) the police were horrible when I went at 22. The male police officer who dealt with me more or less called me Lolita and advised me to leave it and b) I am terrified in a weird way of his wife and the fact that she threatened to take me down all those years ago. She was so angry and blamed me so entirely for everything that happened and I suppose that I am still scared of her anger. Which I know is stupid.

OP - As I say 13 years in terms of policing is another world. i am sure you will have a vastly different experience this time. Plus from the offset explain to the police your last experience at reporting this.

Also report the original threat from his wife to the police. Remember she also knew of his crime.

Shinning a spotlight on these people takes away their power.

I can understand why, having had a bad time with the police in the past, you would not be keen to repeat it

I think tjings really have changed and there are more specialist officers.

Maybe it is one to sit with for a while and see how you feel about it.

And/or speak to rape crisis?

But if you do decide to go to the police or not I am sure there will support for your here in whatever you decide

This is horrific. It is not 'in the past' nor should be imo. Definitely go back to the police. I for one would like to see this bastard taken down. And his wife.

Times have changed dramatically on this score, historical sexual abuse is right at the centre following the dj and others like him. Get support from relevant agencies first so you don't go in 'alone' as it were.

I completely understand the feeling that he is still at the core of you. I had an EA with a teacher from aged 11-18 (who left in the middle of my A levels, ultimately scuppering my much wanted study/career). His wife was also my teacher and she also warned me off. I just could not get the bastard out of my soul, well into my 30s I despaired of getting him out - even at one point wanting to cut him out of my gut . The fucking dreams! Never fucking ending. What did it for me was prayer ie 'deliverance' prayer, other people praying for me. I appreciate that may sound alarming to you but for me it worked, he was gone.

Its so awful what has happened to you. I'm so glad to hear you have gone on to a fulfilling and happy marriage

Christian prayer btw.

OP, I also believe that if you went to the police now, your allegations would be taken much more seriously - particularly as this man is still a teacher with vulnerable pupils.

However, I would definitely advise you to get some support before you do this, because involving officialdom is sadly rarely simple, and a court case could be quite bruising. (This is not an argument for not doing it, but rather an argument for ensuring that you have support systems- especially therapy - in place before you begin, to protect yourself). I imagine the allegation you are making would be easier to substantiate than you think, however, particularly if you were sharing a house.

I also wanted to say that you are not alone. My first relationship was also with a teacher, at about the same age, and in the same area of the country. (Part of me wonders whether it was the same school!) However, at 14 I was ready for the relationship and it didn't do me any lasting harm, perhaps because the guy involved was also quite young (newly qualified) and really not a horrible or controlling person, just very misguided. It wasn't uncommon at my school for these things to go on - conditions were very sexist and it was normal not only for boys to grope girls on a daily basis, but for teachers to see female pupils are fair game. I am glad that times have changed and that it is no longer acceptable, because I think it is not only damaging but fundamentally sexist. Two teachers from the same school have now gone to prison for sex offences, which just shows you what a shift there's been in attitudes!

You were 'ready' at 14, holly?? I beg to differ.

My school was the same as yours, holly. Afaik no one has gone to prison. I keep my eyes peeled.

I will address the other stuff a bit later as I'm in the middle of lunch with my eldest, but I certainly thought I was ready at 14 and maintained that stance until I was in my late 20s but now I know I wasn't. He just made me think I was.

Springy/Pondering - I really was ready, I'm afraid, illegal though that was. I was somewhat precocious on that front, but sadly on no other . I cannot emphasize enough that this does not mean that any other 14 year old is 'ready' AT ALL, or that it is in any way OK to do this. Particularly not current youngsters, who are generally much younger for their age than we were when it comes to this kind of thing.

I worked as a model in my teens, just at the 90s moment when very skinny underage girls became the 'look', and I think the way that you are treated in the fashion industry makes you grow up fast - particularly when the whole heroin chic thing took off and it was basically necessary to be anorexic to work. It really stinks. If anything took my childhood, it was that and my mother's mental illness and violent behaviour- not the sex or this relationship, which was in many ways the most normal thing in my life.

I realise that I sound like I'm in denial about being groomed, but I'm honestly not. I fancied this teacher with all of the obsessive power that only teenagers can muster, and I absolutely threw myself at him. He wasn't really very much older than me - 22 or 23 I think - lonely, in a new job and a new place, and he made a mistake. After a bit, I then moved on to a normal relationship with a guy my own age, and have honest to God never had any problems from it.

I should add that to my knowledge this was the only time this man made such a mistake. The teachers who went to prison from my school were very much older and very much more your predatory grooming type.

Pondering - I think your situation is completely different from mine. From what you've said, this man absolutely targeted you at far too young and age, and inflicted a lot of emotional abuse on you when you were very vulnerable. Which is why I think you might want to go to the police again, in our current improved climate, and see if something can now be done.