Counselling for couples

[Treacleupthehill]

My husband is desperate to save our marriage and obviously that's what I want, too.

I wondered if anybody had any experience of counselling for couples? I've seen on here a few times it isn't reccommended ? Why?

I could really just do with some pointers. I ended the relationship at first because he was so controlling. We have been together for 14 years and married for 10.

Controlling men do not let go of their victims easily, hence the talk about wanting to save the marriage. He does not want to save this in the usual senses of the word; he simply wants to continue to have the ability to control you. Having you around will achieve that aim.

If there has been any type of abuse within the relationship, couples counselling is NEVER recommended. I note that this man was controlling (and likely still is because they do not fundamentally change). That in itself is a good reason NOT to enter into couples counselling. If you have counselling go on your own because you need to have the ability to talk freely in a controlled and safe environment.

Such men can and do manipulate the counsellor and have them end up feeling sorry for the abuser. It can be a tool in the abusers arsenal to be used as a stick to further beat their victim with.

I would suggest you read "Why does he do that?" written by Lundy Bancroft as well as reading the sticky thread at the top of the Relationship pages (the one that says Right listen up everybody).

Thank you. I have read it - not sure really. It's so hard to know what the best thing to do is.

What Attila said. If he is controlling, he could use the counselling against you.

You say he is desperate to save the marriage - how sure are you that you want to save the marriage? How about some individual counselling for you to help you figure out what you're feeling and what you want?

In what ways has he been controlling?

I chose a very experienced couple counsellor. Abusive Ex played her like a kipper. He lapped it up and quoted her incessantly...'yes kitty, you left couple counselling because the counsellor saw right through you'. No you twat, I left because she DIDN'T see through you!

How do you know though, that they didn't have a point? I don't mean you personally sorry - I mean, if a counsellor said to my husband 'you are controlling' he would probably not believe it.

I guess I'm wondering if maybe a detached voice can see things we can't - I don't know? I am tired and not making sense.

I just want my husband to let me be free. He promises he will but I'm scared within 6 months he will be like his old self.

Well if he isn't admitting it to you or himself, he wouldn't to a counsellor. Ideally that's exactly what the role of the counsellor is - to see from a distance and a more detached position - you are making perfect sense - and that works when the counsellor hasn't bought into the abuser's game. But in my case, for instance, she set homework every week, and ex never did it. And in the final session I said he didn't engage in any of the homework tasks and you never challenged him, and she said 'when didn't he do the homework?' and I said every week when I told you I tried to talk to him about the homework but he wouldn't even discuss it.

The hardest part about dealing with an abusive or controlling partner, is wanting them to agree with you and acknowledge it - give you the validation of your experiences - but they simply won't. You might get that from individual counselling - to learn to trust your own experience and name it. But in bad couple counselling there is a second person to invalidate your experience- and that really sucks.

Narcissists are very plausible to new people and it takes a while to see through them so a counsellor could be taken in. I think you need to educate yourself before you consider couples counselling. You could do individual counselling but the book and thread recommendations above could be your first option.

Counselling is particularly dangerous where there is abuse in the relationship. This includes control, because control is emotional abuse.

You say that he wouldn't believe it - yep. Damn right, he wouldn't. He would then decide that the counsellor is out to get him and twist everything she said, insist she's on your side, feel all hard done by (inciting sympathy/trying to explain from you), use it as an excuse to be nasty to you. Anything that you said openly in good faith, he would be angry about, but not in the session, privately afterwards. He may even store it up and then bring it up to use against you later.

Or there is the other possibility, as Jackw says - the abuser/controller completely takes the counsellor in. The counsellor plays into their role of assuming that you both have equal parts in what has gone on so far and tries to look at "your role". You end up playing along and trying really hard to appease him. (Like you haven't enough already? And how is that working out for you?) He will sit smugly there and bask in the glory that it's "all your fault".

It's a total and utter disaster. I understand what you're hoping for - you're hoping that this impartial third party can open his eyes to what you've been trying to for years. Unfortunately it doesn't work like that. If he was open to hearing it, then he would have heard it from you. In the movies you always have that scene where a character hears from somebody what their loved ones wish they could tell them, and they take it on board and change. In real life it just doesn't happen - real people don't have character development and plot devices. They just are who they are.

Why are you waiting for his permission to be free? You can decide that for yourself, and take it, any time that you want.

I suppose I'm scared.

Every time I try, I just hit one brick wall after another. Like I asked advice on here under another name and it was something innocuous enough but it was clear from the replies no one really 'got' it. I just got a load of 'well why don't you do X or Y or Z' but I cant. I am so totally isolated and I can't be in three places at once and it's just a mess.

I keep thinking dH is the only way - okay not ideal, but if he can agree to a certain standard of behaviour?

He's bought me a car (when we were together he took it away) plus loads of vouchers for department stores and will (he says) agree to 'anything.' I know that makes me sound shallow and I promise I am not. It's just after struggling and stressing someone being kind and understanding is - it means a lot. Even if it may not be entirely sincere.

I know what you mean. Don't worry about saying "But I can't because..." - it's useful to put those barriers out in the open so you can really examine them. Yes you will piss some people off who don't have the patience. But who cares? In my experience of mumsnet somebody will be around and will talk you through things even if it is not as straightforward as they originally thought.

Why do you think he is the only way? The way I am seeing it is that this is your main barrier. The thing is you can't get him to agree to a standard of behaviour. That is not how people or relationships work. He has already shown you lots and lots of times that he's not prepared to act reasonably within a relationship.

Thanks for being patient :)

I think my cants are that I have two young young children who I can't leave (obviously!) and I have no support whatsoever.

Everyone says I will find support through local friends; I don't think I will :( I just don't think I am likeable or interesting. I don't even have anyone to care for my two older children when I give birth (currently pregnant.)

I do Love him. It makes no logical sense after all this but I do. And I do think in a weird way he loves me? Maybe not though.

I sort of feel like I commited to this life and I need to see it through; I don't know how to explain it better. Like I'm too old and jaded and tired (at 33!) to start again. Maybe I just lack courage.

The last few weeks have been horrific. I'm so horribly lonely and I don't even feel real half the time.

I think it might be useful for you to go for counselling alone, to work out what you want and get some confidence back.

I can't. I don't have anybody to have my 11 month old.

Well no, nobody would expect you to leave your children.

If you have friends why do you think they wouldn't support you? I don't support only people I find likeable or interesting. I support my friends because that is what friends do.

33 is nothing! You can definitely start again.

I don't have any friends. I know that sounds pathetic, but I don't. This is sort of what I mean - people always assume that everyone has some form of support but I literally have none.

Hmm, childcare for 11 month old to enable you to have counselling. Some ideas.

• Phone around counsellors until you find one which has a creche
• Ask H to look after him. After all he wanted to go for counselling. You could agree to go for separate counselling (that would be more appropriate anyway).
• Find a babysitting agency and pay them.
• Ask one of your friends - just give them the chance to show whether they would/can support you.
• Enquire at your local Sure Start centre - they might be able to help.
• Book him into nursery for one or two mornings/afternoons a week.

Or just time.

There is also the Freedom Programme, which you can do online at no cost.

I don't have any friends to ask.

I can't leave her with my husband; he just isn't really great with babies.

I dId have counselling between September and February - I'm not sure what else could be added to be honest?

Ah OK fair enough. Sorry then ignore that part of my second post. I am assuming you have no family either? Or are they around but not accessible for some reason?

It is not pathetic. You are extremely isolated at the moment. In part (if not entirely) that will be down to the control - controlling people are not as effective in their control if they cannot shut down every avenue of alternative support, so it's natural that they cut those avenues off. I don't think they realise that they are doing it, but they do.

Not feeling real is something I can relate to a lot! And I don't know if you've ever heard the saying that it's worse to be lonely within a marriage than alone and single. I don't know why that ought to be the case but it does seem to be true.

I don't have any at all, no. It's just so crap being like this. I know 33 isn't too old to start again, it's just with young children in tow it feels like it is!

Thanks though - it's good to know it isn't just me who feels like this.

What was your counselling about last time? Did you find it helpful? Yes you're right if you have had some it might not help to keep having more. Ultimately, it has to be a decision that you make to leave, counselling might help, but it also might not, if you're not at that point yet.

I did find it helpful but I seem to be slipping?

In what way? As in it was helping while you went but now you've stopped you've gone back into old patterns?

Why did it end?

Counselling? Money, childcare, time :)

OP you say your DH is desperate to save your marriage and then add obviously you want too to BUT is that really what you want or is it something you will do because he has controlled you into thinking that?

Counselling is good IF and only IF you can find a great couples counsellor that will really observe and not let your DH control the sessions.
These types of counsellors are around and do fab work BUT my worry would be that your DH would stop the sessions/ not go because if he isn't in control of the counsellor then he/she isn't going to 'side' with him.
A good coursellor doesn't take sides ever. PLUS a counsellor isn't there to 'fix' marriages they are there to facilitate the couple to work through what ever is going on for them.
Maybe 1-1 counselling individually for both of you may be a good place to start?