I want a relationship but not sex.

[JoeP79]

Hi all

Bit of a heavy one. Ok, heregoes:

I'm a young(ish) guy who's currently single. However, I face a huge barrier to finding someone special: I've been sexually abused by both men and women as a child. Consequently, feel deeply uncomfortable with sex. Any sexual experience I have had has either felt deeply distressing or caused me to dissociate and become unable to perform: basically it has been a disaster. On top of this I have years of addiction issues, mental illness and health problems.

I've had years of psychotherapy in an attempt to come to terms with what I have suffered (including some sex therapy). However, none of it has enabled me to dissociate what I suffered as a child from the realm of adult sexuality. Sex still makes me feel dirty and used, and then makes me feel guilty because I am feeling revulsion for my partner, who is not to blame and does not deserve this.

I'm now in my thirties, and at that point where I don't want to keep going through this; I would much rather lead a celibate life that I feel I am in control of. However, I do feel bereft of love.

My question is therefore this: do you think there are women who would be happy to enter a sexless relationship with a man? I want a physical connection - kissing and cuddling - but nothing else. Is this too much to ask, or are there other people who would want this too?

The only thing I can really say is that I always thought I would have a fucked up sex life until I met my H. He was also a survivor but much further on in healing than I was. Because we had a huge foundation of trust, I was able to finally open up sexually.

(Prior to that with previous partners I had basically gritted my teeth and gone in drunk or stoned - I desperately wanted kids.)

I think from what you say that women probably are expecting you to make some move to give them a signal that you are attracted to them. For example if I went out for a drink with a male colleague, I would be looking for signs of flirting (preening, physical contact, slightly saucy anecdotes, etc), compliments of some sort, or an attempt at a snog. If none of those were forthcoming, I would consider that the guy only wanted a friendship and wasn't attracted to me.

(By the way I'm not saying I sit there with a checklist or something, this is all pretty much subconscious!)

Although asexuality is now more recognised and talked about, we are talking about a small proportion of the population. So if you didn't give out the right signals, I wouldn't be thinking "asexual", I'd be assuming "he doesn't fancy me."

Maybe try online dating for asexual people and see if that feels easier to you? At least you wouldn't feel anxious and pressured from the get-go that sex would be on the expected menu. I think if you could get some successful dates under your belt, even if they didn't lead to more than simple friendships, it might help you gain confidence.

"For example if I went out for a drink with a male colleague, I would be looking for signs of flirting (preening, physical contact, slightly saucy anecdotes, etc), compliments of some sort, or an attempt at a snog. If none of those were forthcoming, I would consider that the guy only wanted a friendship and wasn't attracted to me."

Thanks for your excellent reply pocketsaviour. So glad you have found someone with whom you can feel safe and connect. How did you get together if you don't mind me asking?

I think what you say above is exactly the problem. Because sexual interaction is so associated with shame and transgression for me, doing all that kind of stuff doesn't come naturally. In fact, I loathe flirting, hate it - find it embarrassing. I'd always much rather talk about music, books or films.

In addition, while I wouldn't go so far as to suggest I've got gender identity issues, I'm very, very uncomfortable with any kind of traditional masculine sexual script. I hate making any kind of initial move that makes me feel like I'm being predatory, which I really don't want to be. In fact, I've always thought I'd rather have been born female. Even I've been hurt by them I like women and prefer female company to male. It's just that when women becoming sexually demonstrative, I get very very anxious and feel like things are out of control.

Thanks for taking an interest in all my crap btw!

We actually met on an online discussion forum for abuse survivors. He was facilitating a local self-help group for male survivors (actually the first such in the UK.)

Sadly he passed away a few years ago. But since then I have had other relationships and have still retained that sexual confidence.

"I'm very, very uncomfortable with any kind of traditional masculine sexual script. I hate making any kind of initial move that makes me feel like I'm being predatory... It's just that when women becoming sexually demonstrative, I get very very anxious and feel like things are out of control."

My H told me this sort of problem was very common in male survivors who had been abused by women. It seems to me (I am not a professional of course) that you have a deep-rooted aversion to any form of sexual display/behaviour, because your earliest experience of sexual behaviour was abusive.

Are you able (you don't have to answer on thread) to use porn? H also told me that male survivors can sometimes use porn to excess, because it is a "safe" sexual experience where they cannot be hurt. However, it can then bring on feelings of shame or guilt about being a "pervert" or "exploitative" or "sad and lonely wanker".

Sexual recovery for survivors is a very difficult process. I am wondering if your previous therapy was not a good fit for you, or whether you were simply not ready to address these issues. It is probably the most difficult ask of any survivor. However for me the benefits have paid for the work ten times over. So even if you're not ready to think about having a sexual relationship right now, it doesn't mean you can't change your mind at a later date.

Hi pocketsaviour.

I'm very sorry to hear about your loss. Your ex partner sounds like a lovely man. However I'm glad that you've managed to maintain the confidence that he helped you to develop.

I do use porn sometimes, but try not to what I'd call excess. Porn isn't something I feel politically or morally comfortable with, so I guess there's an element of guilt, shame and hypocrisy there. But then I think that a lot of heterosexual culture is exploitative and power driven really; porn is just it's most explicit manifestation. I read that book by Andrea Dworkin, which I thought had some good points. But yes, your point stands that porn and masturbation is a form of sexual release with no risk of hurt. It does lead to feelings of isolation and shame, but isn't as bad as what I'd feel in an actual sexual situation. I find my sex drive fluctuates wildly, so that I go from masturbating a dozen times a day to feeling nothing at all. I hate feeling sexually aroused; it's the worst feeling in the world and I wish I didn't feel it at all really. You know that feeling when you've got a stomach bug and you really need to be sick? That's how I feel - like I've got this badness in me that I want to get rid of. Drinking and self-harming used to be my main ways of relieving myself of it, but I've got on top on both of those.

So yes, sex for me is associated with guilt, fear, power, exploitation, objectification - all negative things. I just want to feel clean and pure and good - just like I used to a long time ago when I was a small child - when I was a different person and could lose myself in drawing and playing and didn't know anything of the world of sex.

Now I feel like I'm immersed in this horrendous world. Thinking rationally, I'm sure it isn't so horrendous, and I'm just projecting my own experiences onto it, but it's hard to break that mindset.

Some counselling I had recently attempted to address all this; but the guy simply tried to coach me into a being pick up artist. I don't want to go around trying to pick up girls - that really would make me feel like a sad wanker! It was a waste of time.

My situation must seem quite pathetic, but I have tried so hard. I have been through a nightmare, an utter hell. It has been pulverising and anything worse short of some horrendous terminal illness, extreme poverty or living in warzone is almost unimaginable. I have hurt myself a lot and done some bad things - said horrible things to people, been selfish, squalid, craven, mean. But I have not become an abuser or a violent man as a consequence of my experiences. I've always struggled to be good and use my pain to become a stronger person. But I'm stuck on my own. I'd like to be loved and even to have children who I can love as I never was. However, that seems increasingly unlikely.

Of course you can be loved and have children.

I don't think your situation sounds pathetic at all. I think most women know someone who's suffered from some form of sexual abuse be it a one off rape or assault or longer term abuse. I've encountered other male survivors too. It's not uncommon, it's not off the map, it's not beyond the pale.

You've had to deal with horrendous events on your life which have clearly taken their toll, but I believe that you can and will find healing and find a way to make terms with it. For some people it's a lifelong journey, but it is achievable because I've seen others do it.

I do think that at the moment you are not ready for a relationship - not because of the no-sex thing, as there are other people who want a relationship that is romantic but not sexual - but because you sound so conflicted and unhappy in yourself. I appreciate that your past experiences have hurt you badly but it's a bad idea to seek a partner when you are unhappy and vulnerable. For one thing, the type of people who enjoy having power over others and abusing them are often drawn to vulnerable individuals who will be easy to control and manipulate. But also, while there are women who would be perfectly happy with a sexless relationship, having a relationship with someone who is profoundly unhappy in him/herself is very hard work and few people are prepared to sustain such a relationship.

You sound like a great person and I am sure as your journey continues you will find that you are able to have the things you are (nearly) thinking you deserve and can sustain.

I have also seen many people overcome this and lead fulfiling loving lives. It is not outside of your scope either.

I do agree with others that in the long term a sexless relationship is probably not actually what will be fufilling for you and a goal to have a 'full' relationship with children is completely possible as you continue to come to terms with your past and not let it dictate your future.

Thanks for your kind and supportive words Twiklestein, SolidGoldBrass and LadyBlahBlah.

At the moment I'm just struggling to keep going at work and keep my head above water. I guess it might come in time though.

Are you looking for a monogamous relationship? I'm in a loving, affectionate, tactile relationship with a wonderful man who is unable to have sex at the moment. I have other lovers but he is my life partner. That can be a solution.

I don't actually agree that a relationship without sex couldn't be fulfilling. I think there are plenty of people who are very
happy in sexless relationships.

I think only you can determine if you're ready for a relationship or not. It may be that walking down that road leads you to decide you would like to do more work on yourself with a relationship as your next goal. Or you find someone who's understanding and compassionate and is happy to work with you as you are.

There are plenty of physically or mentally unwell or disabled people who are in good relationships.

GhettoFabulous: I think the relationship would have to be monogamus, yes - I'm not sure I could cope with anything else.

I'm also a member of my local fetish scene, and that can be a very inclusive place. I know people who identify and asexual or demi-sexual (needing to have a strong emotional connection before they have sex).

There is a dating website for people looking for sexless relationships. Whether the reason being medical, psychological or anything else. I remember it being spoken about on a slot on daytime tv. It was for whole looking for serious affectionate relationships but just without anything sexual. I'm so sorry that I can't remember the website name.

Whenever we have threads asking how often couples have sex there are always a surprisingly high number of replies saying "never because it's painful" etc. I think there is a huge amount of women who because of physical problems would be very happy with a loving relationship minus sex.

I don't think the OP is asexual, that means you don't feel the need for sex rather than being unable to have sex.

As others have said, I do think there will be more women out there than you think who would be happy with this kind of relationship. With you saying you don't like flirting, I think meeting someone in person is probably not the route for you. I'm sure there are some groups online where you can be very upfront about who you are and what you want.

It sounds like you still have a way to go but I want to congratulate you on how far you've come. Going through all that therapy isn't easy. I was in a relationship with a male sexual abuse survivor, he was very open about his abuse with me but he refused to seek any kind of help or therapy over it and self destructed in the end. So well done for facing your problems head on.

Thanks Pandora. Having been abused by two women makes it worse. I know it shouldn't be any different,but it is. It's just more of a taboo, and other women can find it quite hard to accept, understandably.

It's very hard to be upfront with potential partners about it.

Hello joe, I know you said you've had lots of counselling, but have you tried EMDR? I had 6 sessions earlier this year for PTSD after an extremely traumatic incident, which I couldn't stop thinking about and had constant triggers. It helps the brain process things that were so traumatic at the time, it just couldn't. It has helped me move on, I was a wreck before it.
It is hard to go through, but it's the only thing that worked for me and it works very quickly.
I'm so sorry for all that you've been through and wish you all the best.

Agree with Stressedoldmom - EMDR is a very powerful tool and worth a try.
If you do an internet search, there are lots of support resources for asexuals so there are ways to meet up.
Good luck - I hope you find a way forwards.

You sound like a lovely person. I think there are lots of women who would be happy with a loving relationship without sex. It just isn't something in this sex obsessed culture some people feel happy to admit. Good luck in finding happiness. Who ever you meet will be very lucky to have such a sensitive kind partner.

OP, sorry for what you have been through. I can see it's already been suggested, and I know you said you're done with counselling, but I wanted to say maybe consider EMDR. It can often work quite quickly, so it doesn't need to be a long term therapy.

My god, you sound fabulous! I wish there were many more men with your level of insight into gender roles, social pornification, and so on :)

From reading between some lines of your posts - though it's obviously a very inexact science - I don't actually think you will have this problem for ever. It sounds very much as though you're re-examining things constantly, allowing them to sink in, and will continue to feel more at ease with your body and sexuality as the real You falls into place. As you gain confidence in who you are, and in your very thoughtful views, I think you'll find yourself more among like minds. This, in turn, will help to build your whole self and your actions.

You sound lovely, honestly. Wrt to your opening question: yes, there are a lot of people who choose not to have sex, either permanently or for a while. I'm one of them, currently. There are many more of us than popular media would have you believe
Don't sweat it, OP.